Redundancy Required for Decompression Diving?

[scubadada]

No, this is the Advanced Scuba forum. There is a separate forum for Tech diving.

Exactly why the topic of light deco and gas redundancy is here, not on the tech forum

 

[Freewillow]

You're on the Internet to research alternative agencies and determine which agency you should take training with?

Or to shop around for superficial powerment from total strangers that gives you options to ignore your own training and 'learn' decompression diving from Internet forums?

Beyond the CMAS derived clubs, all modern and global agencies are very clear that decompression diving is technical diving... and have very robust training suited to the risks and demands associated with an overhead restriction.... including life-support equipment redundancy and correct mindset/attitude.

Let's remember that this is the TECHNICAL area. If you want to put forward a recreational diver perspective, perhaps you'd be better served posting in a different area.[/QUOTE]

Your opinion on CMAS derived club and their anachronism is interesting . I am pretty sure that your opinion is not shared by the whole world. Maybe The Philippines is an exception

No, as Stuart said, we are NOT in the Technical forum.

No, I did not take traning from internet, nor did I find a training agency through internet. I do not consider myself a Tech diver. I was originally trained through PADI. A fact of life is that, while diving on recreational dive cruises in the Maldives, as an exemple, I realised that divers went into small deco obligations.

Because of that I took the IANTD advanced Nitrox in order to understand deco and to be trained in deco procedures. So I did not learn new "tricks" trough reading internet.

Having said this, I have learned quite a bit from reading and participating to 3 different dive forums. People like you, devon diver, with practices that are behond my wildest dreams, are saying quite a few good things that I can learn from.

I have a scientific background and a have a respectable age. This means that I can take here and there on the forum small ideas in order to improve my diving practice. To name a few: deep stops versus shallow stops, GF factors, hydration, ADD's, parachute closed semi closed or open, ways to inflate them, spool or reel, rock bottom, max DTR/Gaz pressure.............

I am quite familiar with technical diving. Just because I have a good friend that is super qualified like you and organises mixed ( leasure/tek) dive cruises in the red sea. Therefore I am familiar with debriefing and teaching these techniques on the boat. And it is obvious that for such dives, I would never dream of taking shortcuts with the trained procedure.

 

[DevonDiver]

My bad... Too many tabs open.. Recreational diving... Fire away with your schemes and theories...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Have you never learned of better ways to do some things and incorporated them into your diving without formal training?

No.

 

[uncfnp]

Do you do every single thing exactly the way you were trained? Or have you evolved? Have you never learned of better ways to do some things and incorporated them into your diving without formal training?

Off topic but of interest.

Yes, extended safety stops, pony bottle, longer hose primary with bungee backup all come to mind immediately. Others might not agree but I believe these changes have made me a safer diver.

 

[admikar]

Beyond the CMAS derived clubs, all modern and global agencies are very clear that decompression diving is technical diving... and have very robust training suited to the risks and demands associated with an overhead restriction.... including life-support equipment redundancy and correct mindset/attitude.

You're saying that CMAS club propagate unsafe diving? With all due respect, I call BS on that.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You're saying that CMAS club propagate unsafe diving? With all due respect, I call BS on that.

Bringing things back on topic... Does CMAS require redundancy when doing decompression? Devondiver referred to them as anachronistic, so is that code word for no redundancy when doing decompression?

 

[DevonDiver]

You're saying that CMAS club propagate unsafe diving? With all due respect, I call BS on that.

I'm saying that, in my opinion:

1. Some aspects are out-of-step with modern, established, global practices due to a stagnancy in evolution and progression.

2. Tables and procedures often used don't reflect several decades of development in our understanding of decompression science, training needs and the advancement of effective protocols and procedures.

3. Liberal limitations on diver range can reflect a much more intimate, long-term, relationship between club coach and student; compared to short-course/shop type training.

4. Those liberal limitations shouldn't be sought by divers who haven't done the extensive, peer and instructor reviewed, training associated with long-term club activity.

5. CMAS, and other varied national affiliate clubs etc, DO provide what they deem appropriate training and protocols for limited decompression diving.

6. Regardless of inter-agency equivalency charts, it's an invalid assumption to presume that because a CMAS 2* diver can do deco, then a non-CMAS equivalent (AOW / Rescue) etc is trained or educated to do such diving.

7. The BSAC (/CMAS) training provision to achieve deco diving isn't modelled on a short, finite, course structure... it's a process of continued mentoring and incremental progression beyond base certification level training.

8. Nonetheless, CMAS, BSAC etc permitted deco diving in an era before the evolution of modern technical diving. Since that time, vast advances in equipment, methodology and best practices have influenced the global diving community. BSAC, CMAS etc have not evolved to effectively encompass that. They remain generally static and unchanged over multiple decades.

 

[DevonDiver]

Your opinion on CMAS derived club and their anachronism is interesting. I am pretty sure that your opinion is not shared by the whole world.

What opinions are ever shared by yhe whole world?

My opinion is based on having been a military club instructor with BSAC, back in the day when it was accepted/certified as 2* CMAS instructor equivalency.

I can compared that with what I know as an instructor for ANDI, PADI TecRec, SSI... along with diver qualifications from TDI, IART etc..... and having extensively worked /trained /dove alongside representatives/instructors from many other agencies, like GUE, UTD, IANTD, RAID etc etc

But, as I stated, it remains merely my opinion.... but, I believe, a reasonably informed one.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, extended safety stops, pony bottle, longer hose primary with bungee backup all come to mind immediately. Others might not agree but I believe these changes have made me a safer diver.

These aren't things prohibited or warned / recommended against by your training agency (virtually every agency).

In fact, all of them can be/are taught by representatives of that agency.

The issue here..... doing decompression without appropriate training / qualification / equipment / protocols.... differs because it's specifically prohibited by training agencies.