No Morning Dive After Flight the Day Before with ProDive Mexico?!?

[stuartv]

Besides hydration, what could POSSIBLY be the reason for this?

Coralie: We usually ask our divers to start in the afternoon trip since our morning dives are usually deeper
...
Coralie: so on your first diving day we prefer you to start with the afternoon dives and then on the next days you will be more than welcome to join the AM dives
Coralie: this is a safety protocol we have
...
Coralie: As I said our morning dives are deeper (around 90/100fet)
Coralie: and the current can be strong in Cozumel some days
Coralie: so as we do not know you as a diver yet, we like to start in the afternoon trip
Coralie: As a dive master you probably have some experience but as a dive master you also know that safety is very important in diving
Coralie: In pro dive safety is our major concern, so this is why we have some rules
Coralie: Now, it is also depends on your experience
...
Coralie: So I would have to check with the dive center if you can maybe start with the 10 AM dives
Coralie: what is your experience ?
Coralie: How many dives do you have logged ?
Coralie: We can make some exeption
...
Coralie: You can dive after flying, this is not the problem
Coralie: I am talking about safety and depth
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Coralie: So if you give me more info about your dive experience
Coralie: i'd be happy to arrange something for you
Coralie: and maybe organize morning dives
...
Coralie: I would check with the dive center how we can arrange AM dives for you
Coralie: You wrote me 85 dives thsi year, but how many dives in total ?
The visitor has left the chat.

It could be just me, but that seems like a pretty clear explanation of why. And never a statement that it's a REQUIREMENT. It seems pretty clear (to me) that they will make an exception to what they PREFER if you give them the info to let them know that you (and your buddies) are indeed qualified to do the morning deep dives.

Again it could just be me, but this comes across as someone who wants special treatment because they are a freshly minted DM and maybe the next thing to be revealed was going to be that at least one of the other divers in the group does not have sufficient experience to satisfy ProDive that they would be okay to take on the morning deep dive (when judging just based on credentials). Maybe the OP wanted to be able to take a not-experienced-enough diver on the deep dive on the basis that the OP is a DM and should be able to do what he wants? But he quickly realized he wasn't going to slide that one past ProDive, so he cut them off and moved on?

I'm not very experienced as a diver. I have been out on at least 10 different charters, with at least 5 different operators around the country and in Mexico where "advanced" was required. I have never yet had a problem getting approved in advance to go on these charters. All without lying about my experience and without having to go on any "checkout" dives first. It has seemed to me that honesty, courtesy, and a good attitude have always gotten me "there".

 

[stuartv]

I think there must be a good bit of luck involved too.

Absolutely! But for that many years and that many dive centers (even realizing that they probably started with one dive center and grew over time), that still seems pretty great, to me! I would have thought, if they are not running a pretty tight ship, even good luck wouldn't get them by for THAT long, with that many dive centers, without ANY fatalities.

and. they wouldn't take AWAP's higher card for a dive that needed a lower cert? That sounds bizarre too. I hope no dm's or instructors show up with only their instructor card.

A Nitrox card does not require any dives. I would not expect anyone to take my Nitrox card as proof that I am certified to dive. Much less proof that I am good for an "advanced" dive. Heck, I got my Nitrox card as soon as I finished OW, before I had any post-OW dives at all.

If awap actually showed up to dive with them and they wouldn't let him go out, I would definitely be curious to hear more. Did they attempt to look up his cert online? Did he attempt to pull it up online and show them on a phone or tablet? Tell them his agency and cert #? And they still wouldn't let him dive? Bottom line for me: If I showed up with nothing but a card that requires no dives to get, and the dive operator ultimately wouldn't take me out, I would probably be totally pissed - but, at the same time, recognize that it's my own fault. I might criticize the operator's customer service, if they wouldn't or couldn't look it up online. But, in the end, that is them doing me a favor to make up for my own failure.

 

[stuartv]

A Nitrox card does not require any dives.

Incidentally, I don't know about any other agencies, but the SDI prerequisites for taking the Nitrox course are being an OW diver OR being enrolled in an OW course.

So, in THEORY, a person would have a Nitrox card without having even completed OW. In theory.

Regardless, the NItrox C card requires no dives. I would never expect someone to take my Nitrox card as proof that I am certified to dive.

 

[Dogbowl]

A lesson for all of us to not jump to conclusions based on one person's account of what happened.

 

[Charles2]

My wife loves the Royal Hideaway in Playa del Carmen, also the Occidental Grand Cozumel. She is a non-diver and enjoys sitting on the beach or by the pool with a good book while I dive. Am I the luckiest guy - or what?

ProDive is the 'on-site' operator at both of these locations. I dive with ProDive when we are at either and have been completely satisfied with their operation and their concern for safety.

@Markus Fleischmann - Please say "Hi" to Carlos and Marike for me. They are both a great asset to ProDive.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I'll add another lesson: Even if a dive op's stated policy reflects their desire to minimize risk, and even if they don't ask you for any information beyond the usual "level of certification," "date of last dive," and "total number of dives," if you want to do something they might be reluctant to let you do, consider proactively telling them a bit more about yourself and asking for an exception. If you make a convincing case, you might get what you want. I can appreciate that it's difficult for a dive op, and probably takes a few more minutes of their time, to determine what's convincing/truthful, but at least a few dive ops--as in boulderjohn's anecdote--seem to be pretty good at it.

 

[redacted]

op



A Nitrox card does not require any dives. I would not expect anyone to take my Nitrox card as proof that I am certified to dive. Much less proof that I am good for an "advanced" dive. Heck, I got my Nitrox card as soon as I finished OW, before I had any post-OW dives at all.

If awap actually showed up to dive with them and they wouldn't let him go out, I would definitely be curious to hear more. Did they attempt to look up his cert online? Did he attempt to pull it up online and show them on a phone or tablet? Tell them his agency and cert #? And they still wouldn't let him dive? Bottom line for me: If I showed up with nothing but a card that requires no dives to get, and the dive operator ultimately wouldn't take me out, I would probably be totally pissed - but, at the same time, recognize that it's my own fault. I might criticize the operator's customer service, if they wouldn't or couldn't look it up online. But, in the end, that is them doing me a favor to make up for my own failure.

A prerequisite for nitrox training is OW cert. I had to go back to my room and get my OW card to make them happy. I had my new!y certified granddaughter with me so there was no issue of advanced dive sites. But I did see this op take newly certified divers to devils throat where it took them so long to get to the entrance that divers with more conservative computers ended up with deco obligations.

The problem is not that the op wanted to do a "check out" dive. The problem is that the op resisted accomodating that in a morning dive which Marcus acknowledged they could have done. I doubt if there is any site that prodive does that does not offer an excellent dive at 70 to 80 feet or shallower.

 

[lv2dive]

Um, you can't get a Nitrox card without an OW card.

Incidentally, I don't know about any other agencies, but the SDI prerequisites for taking the Nitrox course are being an OW diver OR being enrolled in an OW course.

So, in THEORY, a person would have a Nitrox card without having even completed OW. In theory.

Regardless, the NItrox C card requires no dives. I would never expect someone to take my Nitrox card as proof that I am certified to dive.

 

[ggunn]

Actually, no. ProDive the retail store ha - but ProDive the dive shop has not been around for very long - at least not here in Cozumel that I am aware of. I remember them coming on the scene maybe 5 years ago? I could be wrong of course

I believe our friend Beto Nunez (now passed) was a captain for ProDive in the 80's, and wasn't the ProDive pier named for them? Maybe they left and came back.

 

[drrich2]

People's views on how paternalistic a dive op. should be (e.g.: checking certification, taking new customers on a more benign 1st dive & observing them rather than take their word or cert. level for competence, refusing service to people who look infirm or have 'gray area' medical conditions) vary. It sounds like Pro Dive leans toward the more paternalistic side, which isn't to the taste of some (including me), but that's an issue where opinion rules.

While a record of no deaths in a multi-location operation over time sounds good in theory (& nobody's wishing for deaths), if you deal with enough human beings long enough, you're likely going to have some deaths. Doesn't matter if you're a dive op., grocery store or hotel owner, own a paid parking lot, etc... Eventually, somebody's likely to drop dead while receiving your services, or on your grounds.

You can reduce the odds of that drastically. Don't let anybody dive, and nobody will die diving. Exclude people who aren't optimal (e.g.: minors, the obese, people 60+, even usually minor medical history like hypertension or well-controlled asthma), very conservative profiles, etc... You'll probably get a fine track record of minimal mortality, at the cost of refusing service to many people who would've been fine. Who do you vote for; Big Brother or Individual Liberty? What shade of gray is your flavor?

The transcript reads like Pro Dive got misrepresented here badly. I'm delighted it seems the record was set straight. On the other hand, it does look like they create the appearance of discouraging a 1st day morning dive trip; you've got to be savvy enough to challenge that & seek an exception. Apparently that's not common practice amongst the local op.s. It's not necessarily 'right' or 'wrong,' but if that's the way they do business, customers have a choice.

I appreciate the Pro Dive rep.s professionalism and detail to explaining their position, the basis for it and the backstory of this case.

Richard.