Sidemount and helmets in open water

[Razorista]

One or two probably

You will never know however, that I am sure of.

 

[Razorista]

What's technical btw and why is a helmet more useful there?
I have done my share of moderately deep dives, penetrations I am not allowed to talk about here anymore, wrecks are 'easy playgrounds' for sidemount divers anyway, at any depth...
I have used runtime tables and gas mixes (accompanied by the instructor) or high concentration oxygen, but would probably have to look up most calculations again, since I design my dives to be easy to do by computer and rough mental backup and avoid gas logistics (I prefer to lengthen the dive before complicating it).

So, again, helmets:

Protection is not needed anywhere (a nice side-effect though).
Nobody likes others to scrape the wreck (or cave) with the top of their helmet 'because they can'.

It is strictly an easy light mounting system.
And it works incredibly well with the sidemount configuration.
Freeing both hands.

Yesterday I did one circuit at my training spot without using the fins for turns.
Hands only (and no touching), and always positioned in a way to give maximum negative effect (raising dust) when done wrong.
Impossible with light cable or anything but a minuscule handlight on a goodman - this time with constant 500 lumen illumination of everything I look at.

 

[boulderjohn]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A number of posts related to the continuing discussion of diving in caves without proper training have been removed.

---

 

[boulderjohn]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

With our new system, it is easy to tell when someone has been banned, even if it is only a temporary ban. I am sure readers of this thread will note that. Normally we do not comment on this sort of thing, ever. In one case, I have been told to make an explanation; I have been authorized to say that in the case of Razorista the final straw for the banning was the continuing advocacy of diving in caves without proper training.

---

 

[kensuf]

Using equipment only for certain circumstances means that diver familiarity and intuition with the equipment is always sub-optimal. The same applies to chopping and changing equipment on a whim. It's okay for the dilettante diver, but it's a hazardous omission for those intending to use the equipment on arduous or unforgiving dives.

View attachment 366601

I agree, which is why I dive double 104's, a drysuit, and use my scooter when I'm going lobstering in 20' of water in the keys.

 

[nakatomi]

Yesterday I did one circuit at my training spot without using the fins for turns.
Hands only (and no touching), and always positioned in a way to give maximum negative effect (raising dust) when done wrong.
Impossible with light cable or anything but a minuscule handlight on a goodman - this time with constant 500 lumen illumination of everything I look at.

So let me see if I understand what you are saying to justify the helmet mounted light.
In the example you are not using your fins and you are not pulling yourself along with your hands.
Instead you are using your hands in the water column for propulsion and changing the direction?
Really? Now why would you ever want to do that?

Your reasoning is that the goodman handle and cable hinder this approach?
Well I would say that's good for the goodman handle then.
Nobody should ever need to propel himself in the water, or turn, using this technique.
It's totally ineffective and all it does is stir up the silt. And it looks douchy too.
Some beginners tend to do it, I know I did when I started scuba diving, but it has no place at all in technical diving.

 

[Razorista]

Ok, I will try to restart this again, let's see...

So let me see if I understand what you are saying to justify the helmet mounted light.

Nope! The words 'helmet mounted light' are reason and explanation in themselves.

In the example you are not using your fins and you are not pulling yourself along with your hands.

Yes, I was so thoroughly educated to 'not touch anything', I still have to consciously avoid an instinct to pull my hands away at the last moment.

Instead you are using your hands in the water column for propulsion and changing the direction?

Quite right.

I have an example here: An exaggerated one though.

On the other hand I use the exact way of moving the arms very often in regular open water dives.
Most of the time in combination with fin movements for 'one stroke 90 degree turns' and to extend glide phases and steer their direction.

Really? Now why would you ever want to do that?

Because it can be very effective and useful, especially in combination with normal fin movement or when the fins will potentially touch something unseen when moved.

Your reasoning is that the goodman handle and cable hinder this approach?

There you are taking it to far, I did not imply that, more the opposite.
The cable is distracting and restricting in more important ways.
Not having it, for those other reasons, also allows more effective hand movement, though.

Well I would say that's good for the goodman handle then.

Thought so too, ...once... a year or two ago probably.

Nobody should ever need to propel himself in the water, or turn, using this technique.

Should? Where did 'should' ever hold up to reality in diving?
I often cannot move my fins without damaging something, so I don't

It's totally ineffective and all it does is stir up the silt.

Ineffective yes, but on the contrary can be used to avoid silting.
It is actually much easier to carefully direct moving water past small obstructions and potential silting hazards.
In cavediving vids many show examples of directing the water towards their body with sometimes surprising effectiveness.

And it looks douchy too.

That's so true
But looks are less important than most sm-divers think.

Some beginners tend to do it, I know I did when I started scuba diving, but it has no place at all in technical diving.

Everyone does when staring scuba.
Good instructors try to get that cured before the first open water dive.
But after a few hundret dives it get's interessing again, since it is one of the few areas where a superior training level can be applied effectively.

 

[tbone1004]

why would you ever need to use your hands and more importantly why would you want to? Your fins are very big, your hands are not. If you are going forward, you can use a shuffle kick, if you are going backwards, you can scull backwards without moving your fins too far and will go backwards much more efficiently, especially if you have as much room laterally as you need to get any propulsion from your arms. Alternatively, if you are in a small passage and don't have that lateral movement, you can push yourself backwards from the wall, but that should only be if you get stuck...

 

[bamafan]

Well at least Razorista is back off his probation. I have to say the video is entertaining. Things should be interesting for a few days till he gets banned again.

 

[nakatomi]

I have an example here:

Using the hands in such a manner is not acceptable. It will disturb the silt, there is absolutely zero chance that it wouldn't.
Now I truly believe it works well in your indoor diving center or your favorite pond, but believe me that you'd not do well with it in most real life scenarios.
All propulsion and maneuvering efforts needs to direct the water away from the floor. Using the hands can never achieve that, unless you would do the hand movements above your head which would look even weirder than what you are doing in the video.

On the other hand I use the exact way of moving the arms very often in regular open water dives.

I bet you do...

Most of the time in combination with fin movements for 'one stroke 90 degree turns' and to extend glide phases and steer their direction.

Using your hands would make you fail any of my classes. It's a taboo, you don't use your hands, ever.

Because it can be very effective and useful, especially in combination with normal fin movement or when the fins will potentially touch something unseen when moved.

No it can't.