Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?

[The Chairman]

From a technical side, there just is not much information needed. We are not going to suddenly change plans because our SAC rate got better during part of our dive.

It's not the better SAC rate that I'm worried about. It's when I'm going through gas faster than I thought. One quick flick of the wrist and I see depth, time and gas. All three limits are right there. No muss, no fuss and no fumbling.

That's not the only benefit to AI. I use it when I sidemount. It eliminates some failure points as well as entanglement hazards.

 

[CuzzA]

So, what I've been doing with AI is I figure out my rock bottom calculation (me-solo or me and buddy) and program that as my reserve. Divide the remaining gas and set that as my mid tank warning. Because you need to set those two numbers in the computer you have at least created a safe plan, rather than "Be back on the boat with 500 psi." Because I did the calculations, I know what the numbers are in my head. I know some dislike an audible warning, but one turn/mid tank warning alarm during a dive doesn't bother me one bit. Because the data is on my wrist in front of me, that audible alert never really comes as a surprise, but when I'm heavily task loaded it's a nice reminder if my current task happens to occur during the point I should turn my dive but I'm occupied with something else. Is it essential that I avoid missing my turn pressure for a few minutes, not likely because I have my reserve, but it helps to avoid it and keep the dive going as planned. I think I'm having deja vu that we already discussed this in this thread.

In the absence of an AI computer you need to remember those numbers or right them down on a slate. Which is not a problem, but it's not as convenient. Especially if you're doing repetitive dives at different locations/depths.

So there is more utility to AI than everyone is stating.

 

[The Chairman]

I say it was.

What's with all the re-writing of history in this thread??? The Whine and Cheese forum was never available to Google or any other search engine since it's inception. I know because I created it and set it's attributes. It took a number of years for anyone to notice our diabolical way of hiding problematic posts from the rest of the world, but that doesn't change the fact that it was always invisible to the search engines. In fact, when people found out it was not Googlelieyzed, there was a huge uproar by almost two or three posters. However, it seemed that they were more upset that we trivialized it with the name, Whine and Cheese than they were with the fact that it was hidden. We compromised and changed the name.

ScubaBoard gets looked at all the time. Google loves us and we love Google. However, I don't like it when we're used by anyone trying to extort something out of a dive op. Right or wrong, once it becomes clear that any thread is being used in such a manner, it gets relegated to TD. This is especially true when we see the same exact post showing up on other online forums or FaceBook. I don't want to censor it, but I surely am not going to lend such attempts any of ScubaBoard's Google power. That's why we created Whine and Cheese in the first place and why we continue to send problematic threads there.

 

[CuzzA]

What's with all the re-writing of history in this thread???

@NetDoc, as lowviz pointed out, this thread is moving on multiple levels at lightning speed.... Where shall we go next?

By the way, I just realized that I can highlight the section of your post I want to quote and a pop up allows me to just quote that instead of quoting the whole message and going back and deleting. I don't recall this feature before, must be new tech with the new ScubaBoard.

Freaking awesome! Not really necessary, but definitely more convenient. Hint, hint.

 

[DevonDiver]

Excuse me Andy, I usually really like your posts but this is absolute and utter BS and you must know that. I too have worked as a full-time instructor for several years.

I have no intention to embarrass you, either personally or professionally... I simply suggest that you might research the concept of Gas Matching... as it applies to overhead environment diving.

TECREC TECH DEEP DIVER MANUAL, Ch4, p199

Gas Matching
In tec diving you’ll hear a fair bit about gas matching, particularly in diving that involves overhead environments (caves and wrecks). Gas matching is a technique that accounts for teams with members who have different breathing rates and cylinder sizes. It helps assure that should the diver with the highest SAC rate and gas supply have complete gas loss at the furthest penetration point, a team mate with a lower gas supply volume and lower SAC rate have sufficient gas reserve for both divers to exit. The idea is for the diver with the smaller gas volume/lower SAC rate to reserve a volume equal to one-third of the larger gas supply.

Because you can usually ascend immediately or very soon in deep open water tec diving, gas matching isn’t typically used in open water tec diving. However, if you become qualified to make wreck penetrations or cave/cavern dives, gas matching is very important.

For open water tec diving it’s sufficient to determine your actual gas volume before each dive to be sure you have enough gas, plus reserve, to make the dive as planned. However, you may find it handy in situations in which you want to return to a particular point before ascending, such as along an anchor line when there’s a moderate surface current. In this case, you might plan to come back before ascending, and gas matching provides the option of doing so if assisting a team mate with more gas and a higher SAC. (Obviously, you still should have your lift bag, deco cylinders and be prepared to ascend directly).

 

[lowviz]

What's with all the re-writing of history in this thread??? ...//...

Pete, I don't want to be difficult. I do try to be accurate, even when doing so doesn't benefit me.

http://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/where-did-the-whine-and-cheese-go.409681/#post-6209327

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, I don't want to be difficult. I do try to be accurate, even when doing so doesn't benefit me.

http://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/where-did-the-whine-and-cheese-go.409681/#post-6209327

Of course, I didn't specify when we removed Whine and Cheese from being indexed. Like I said, it was amusing that all of a sudden, people finally noticed that you couldn't see it from Google. It had been that way for years. It was the truth, but not the whole truth.

BTW, notice that it wasn't called Thumbs Down at this point either. That came a bit later, but not much.

 

[The Chairman]

By the way, I just realized that I can highlight the section of your post I want to quote and a pop up allows me to just quote that instead of quoting the whole message and going back and deleting.

Wow... you learn something new everyday. Thanks for pointing that out. Beats the hell out of hitting "reply" and deleting all the crap you don't want to respond to.

 

[DevonDiver]

I am pointing out that 5 years ago some of the same folks who claimed computers were devils spawn are saying the same thing about AI.

Ok...so I've been on Scubaboard since 2007 and I don't remember this. Do you mean offline...real world... attitudes? If so, I've been a tech instructor for 10 years...and I didn't see this attitude either.

That's why I ask if maybe it's a regional/local attitude? It certainly doesn't represent the tech community I know in Asia and Europe...

I remember technical dive boats in the UK 10 years ago where everyone was wearing VR3 or VR2 computers. I also remember happy faces when the 'color' version came out... I, likewise, remember first seeing a Liquivision X1 in action... and that must have been around 2008... because the owner died shortly thereafter (not because of the computer, I might add... no FIGJAM there Pete...). The X1 received A LOT of positive attention in the community when it was introduced. I also know divers who use Cochran computers and have done so for decades... some very pioneering technical/cave instructors, I might add...

Or.... are you mistaking (or exaggerating) where technical divers have simply stated that a computer is not necessary for technical diving? A sentiment that remains true and justifiable to this day....

 

[DiveNav]

..... I'm cr@p at math... but I can manage all the necessary calculations for diving in my head if I use metric. ......

I am OK at math .... I use it often at the office.
When I dive I don't want to do any math .... I want to relax and enjoy the ride