Yeah, my initial point was that, at least, the "mentioned unit" was easy to de-fluff by replacing the strappy stuff with 1 piece of webbing after the thrill of the initial "gateway BP/W-with-fluff-experience" became dissatisfaction with the cumbersomeness of the fluff.....................Is this sentence too long?
Good news re BP/W choice
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Yeah, my initial point was that, at least, the "mentioned unit" was easy to de-fluff by replacing the strappy stuff with 1 piece of webbing after the thrill of the initial "gateway BP/W-with-fluff-experience" became dissatisfaction with the cumbersomeness of the fluff.....................Is this sentence too long?
extremetito
Contributor
I hesitate to step into the flames, but allow me to share my experience:
I recently restarted diving after a long hiatus. So far it's all been warm water diving requiring international travel. Renting gear has not been perfectly satisfying, so I started to buy my own equipment. My preliminary research delved into the internet (SCUBA magazines, review sites, manufacturer and retail sites, forums such as scubaboard), local dive shops, discussions with other divers, renting out and trying different pieces at the dive resorts.
God help me, I decided to acquire my own BCD.
Scubaboard has been particularly interesting and useful, but on this topic the board is polarized. The two major camps seem to be the minimalistic BP/W with no frills group ("Hogarthian", "DIR") and everyone else.
I get the arguments of the minimalistic group, but I wanted to try diving in this kind of rig before committing to it. No resort that I went to rented Hogarthian rigs, but I was able to try back-inflate BCDs. On my excursions to local dive shops (LDS), no salesperson ever recommended a simple BP/W, but did sometimes point out assembled BP/W BCDs like the Hollis HTS and DiveRite Transpac.
So here is where I am:
I have learned that the minimalistic kits are not cheaper than comparably featured "standard" BCDs (although the webbing is cheap).
I believe that minimalistic BP/Ws require correct adjustment and initial fine tuning. I am not certain how much of a hassle that might be.
I think probably most BCDs (that I am considering) will work adequately, if not well, for my purposes.
I understand that some in the minimalistic BP/W camp have had some kind of epiphany regarding this BCD configuration (and expect that others will too-if they opt for it)
But for me, it would still be a small leap of faith to choose the no-frills BP/W approach, spending a good amount, when I know a good back-inflate rig would serve well, and I am not perfectly convinced I want to do without the pockets/frills/fluff.
I recently restarted diving after a long hiatus. So far it's all been warm water diving requiring international travel. Renting gear has not been perfectly satisfying, so I started to buy my own equipment. My preliminary research delved into the internet (SCUBA magazines, review sites, manufacturer and retail sites, forums such as scubaboard), local dive shops, discussions with other divers, renting out and trying different pieces at the dive resorts.
God help me, I decided to acquire my own BCD.
Scubaboard has been particularly interesting and useful, but on this topic the board is polarized. The two major camps seem to be the minimalistic BP/W with no frills group ("Hogarthian", "DIR") and everyone else.
I get the arguments of the minimalistic group, but I wanted to try diving in this kind of rig before committing to it. No resort that I went to rented Hogarthian rigs, but I was able to try back-inflate BCDs. On my excursions to local dive shops (LDS), no salesperson ever recommended a simple BP/W, but did sometimes point out assembled BP/W BCDs like the Hollis HTS and DiveRite Transpac.
So here is where I am:
I have learned that the minimalistic kits are not cheaper than comparably featured "standard" BCDs (although the webbing is cheap).
I believe that minimalistic BP/Ws require correct adjustment and initial fine tuning. I am not certain how much of a hassle that might be.
I think probably most BCDs (that I am considering) will work adequately, if not well, for my purposes.
I understand that some in the minimalistic BP/W camp have had some kind of epiphany regarding this BCD configuration (and expect that others will too-if they opt for it)
But for me, it would still be a small leap of faith to choose the no-frills BP/W approach, spending a good amount, when I know a good back-inflate rig would serve well, and I am not perfectly convinced I want to do without the pockets/frills/fluff.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Overhead. Flip the tank / harness over your head to "don" and reach back and grab the valve and pull it back over your head to doff (reverse)
It's ridiculously easy to do with a BP&W, even with doubles in the water. With doubles the diver moves more than the tanks, you kinda slide out from under the rig.
The biggest issue is managing the reg hoses, bungeed backup etc. but with a bit of planning it's easy.
Tobin
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Actually, within the BP/W group there are four separate divisions as I see it.
First there's the "DIR", "Hogarthian" camp which goes up from rec into cave/tech, etc. They have all their gear/training protocols and certain ways of doing things, high emphasis on team diving, etc.
Then there's the vintage group which also dives minimalistic rigs (plates and backpacks) but they try to use period vintage gear. They are characterized mostly by the use of double hose regs and no BC (how they dove "back in the day").
Then there are the modern minimalists that are actually a splinter group off the vintage divers. The difference is they are allowed to use all new modern gear and are not limited by whether something is "true" to any particular period, nor do they have any rules with gear choices, or as far as how a DIR setup might need to be, or any other "school". They are characterized by having the appearance that they almost have no gear on. A tank on a plate, no wing, only one second stage, a simple SPG tucked away somewhere, a computer on the wrist, many use long fins. This group mostly uses the configuration for speed and stealth for hunting. It's not particularly useful for instance for photography since it's difficult to position and hover for a shot without the use of a wing.
Then there are the rest of the BP/W users which don't subscribe to any particular internal "camp", they just want to dive and have fun. Their rigs can be a gathering of many different components often seen in a regular recreational rig, but the core is a BP/W.
So it's the above four, and everyone else.
But the above four only make up less than one percent of all divers on the planet.
Anyone got a video?
I remember Dan posting this some time ago. Long video but if you go to 16 minutes I think you will find what Tobin is describing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TD4K0SzZijI
BDSC
Contributor
I don't own a BP/W even though I have tried a couple on several different dives. I dive a SP back inflate BC. But I am curious about something. Folks seem to be saying that the Dive Rite harness system in post number 6 is complex and has a lot of "fluff". Other than an extra set of rings and what seems to be a more adjustable fit, what is so complex? How does all this "fluff" take away from it's function?
Cheers for the video - I understand it now!
The fluff referred to is the plastic buckles, the chest strap and padding (ignoring the extra rings which really aren't that big an issue).
Reasons why they are fluff:
1) Plastic buckles are a failure point. They add a weak point to the system instead of a straight strong piece of webbing.
2) The buckles being adjustable are not required and actually make more work every dive as the standard way of working is to adjust them to "loose" prior to donning and then snug them when the gear is on - with the simple harness it is adjusted once and doesn't need changed.
3) A properly adjusted BP&W harness doesn't need adjustment - it fits you perfectly. You don't need to snug it down every dive because the shoulder strap is properly adjusted once.
4) The chest strap isn't needed because the shoulder straps are properly adjusted once and the wing is held in the right place by the crotch strap.
5) Padding - not really needed in the water. Even on land the harness fits properly and 2 inch wide webbing actually spreads the weight quite well. The padding is also yet another thing that needs extra weight to offset its buoyancy.
You don't need the more adjustable fit (which gets adjusted everytime) - you just need the right fit. 5-10 minutes with the simple harness will set it up right for anyone.
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