New diver - questions and thoughts on regulator setup

[Tbar]

Tbar, when you say hose still around the neck I'm assuming you're referring to the bungee, ....
...I don't mean to be rude but I think you're making this out to appear harder than it is...

The 5/7 foot hose will come up around the back of the neck and be able to hang on the chest. This needs to be un-wrapped in removing the gear.

Don't get me wrong I am not criticizing the set-up just responding to Noahs original comment, I am not saying the longer hose poses a significant issue, just that is that there are things to consider most decisions do have some pros and cons. I think others have taken the comment out of perspective and added the petrol!

The use of shears to cut the webbing I think is the better option, particular when the diver is in a membrane dry suit, a cut to the suit can impact on buoyancy. But most divers have sharp double edged knives.

Totally agree best is not to get into an emergency situation.

 

[buddhasummer]

Thanks for your response. I take your point and largely agree with the message. Not to be argumentative but, there's always a but, I find it hard to imagine how the long hose will get "hung up" ? Not saying it's impossible just hard for me to imagine. If I take it out of my mouth will "uncoil" and go walk about. I'll play with it next dive. On a lighter note, my condolences re the rugby, we (the All Blacks) were in top form, not that I'm really that interested but being an expat I do sometimes suffer bouts of nationalist pride.

 

[Tbar]

Thanks for your response. I take your point and largely agree with the message. Not to be argumentative but, there's always a but, I find it hard to imagine how the long hose will get "hung up" ? Not saying it's I'm possible just hard for me to imagine. If I take it out of my mouth will "uncoil" and go walk about. I'll play with it next dive.

I am just going on experience in pool sessions, the long hose and the canister light tend to cause the most obstruction in removing the gear. We don't go as far as cutting the harness but rather using a GUI technique of sliding the BPW down the body. The great thing about refresh/practice is I know what to look out for if I have to do a rescue.

On a lighter note, my condolences re the rugby, we (the All Blacks) were in top form, not that I'm really that interested but being an expat I do sometimes suffer bouts of nationalist pride.

Dam there are Kiwis every where. Nice to see those two teams through to the final and the Aus team made a go of the game.

 

[noah977]

Tbar, when you say hose still around the neck I'm assuming you're referring to the bungee, that being the case I'd question how the bungee was tied/attached etc. there is no way my bungee would stay attached to regulator if my plate was descending, it simply would not support that weight. My bungee is tied/attached in such a manner as to come off reg with a modicum of force.

Buddhasummer, that sounds like a good thing to setup. HOW did you tie your bungee so that the regulator will easily detach?

 

[buddhasummer]

Make the necklace using slip knots (?) I think that's what they are called and don't pull the mouthpiece loop too tight. If it doesn't come off with a lightish tug it's too tight.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 10:30 PM ----------

I am just going on experience in pool sessions, the long hose and the canister light tend to cause the most obstruction in removing the gear. We don't go as far as cutting the harness but rather using a GUI technique of sliding the BPW down the body. The great thing about refresh/practice is I know what to look out for if I have to do a rescue.

Dam there are Kiwis every where. Nice to see those two teams through to the final and the Aus team made a go of the game.

Gotta wonder why so many of us are expats lol...

 

[halocline]

The 5/7 foot hose will come up around the back of the neck and be able to hang on the chest. This needs to be un-wrapped in removing the gear.

Removing the long hose from a diver when removing the gear is really simple, it's not wrapped around the neck, it passes behind the head. Any hose can get tangled up a little. BP/Ws tend to be very simple streamlined rigs with a minimum of clutter, and as such are pretty easy to remove. And anyhow, gear removal is a low priority for rescue, typically occurring after the injured diver is either on shore, on a boat, or immediately prior.

Getting back to the overall issue of safety with the long hose, if anything there's an increased safety element due to the MUCH better air sharing convenience and immediate access to the alternate. There's a reason that the vast majority of technical divers use the long hose/bungeed alternate, it's just a much better system for air sharing. This means increased safety.

As far as the "training" required to use a long hose, I think that's nonsense. As I mentioned before, a real OOA scenario often results in the 2nd stage being forcibly removed from a divers mouth. I got a kick out of someone posting on this thread that they were "trained" to offer their alternate and hang onto their primary to prevent an OOA diver from taking it. Not sure what planet that instructor is on, but here on earth I can assert from experience that a truly OOA diver is going to get that 2nd stage FAST. Trying to fight it is pointless, and anyhow it's probably in the OOA diver's mouth before the 'donating' diver even realizes what's going on. It's a really good thing these sorts of scenarios are rare; the only reason the big recreational agencies can get away with teaching the nice polite fantasy land OOA scenario is because most of their students will never encounter the reality of a drowning diver mugging them for air.

What is common, though, is a diver's 2nd stage becoming dislodged accidentally and/or momentarily lost. This is where the bungeed alternate really shines. It's right there a few inches away from the diver's mouth, even accessible hands free with a bit of practice.

When one looks at all the factors, it's very difficult to successfully argue against the logic of the long hose/bungeed alternate.

 

[Tbar]

Removing the long hose from a diver when removing the gear is really simple, it's not wrapped around the neck, it passes behind the head. Any hose can get tangled up a little. BP/Ws tend to be very simple streamlined rigs with a minimum of clutter, and as such are pretty easy to remove. And anyhow, gear removal is a low priority for rescue, typically occurring after the injured diver is either on shore, on a boat, or immediately prior.

It is getting a bit repetitive and boring now - I have said there is more chance of obstruction and I have experienced this in pool sessions as have others I dive with who use long hoses. I make no comment on OOA, and would generally expect to donate my primary... Would anyone really propose a long swim towing a diver in full gear? The swim is the time to be removing the gear. A doubles set-up or side-mount are by no means 'streamlined' for a surface tow.

Sorry if my original simple comment, that there are considerations with the hose has distracted this thread so much.

 

[buddhasummer]

It is getting a bit repetitive and boring now - I have said there is more chance of obstruction and I have experienced this in pool sessions as have others I dive with who use long hoses. I make no comment on OOA, and would generally expect to donate my primary... Would anyone really propose a long swim towing a diver in full gear? The swim is the time to be removing the gear. A doubles set-up or side-mount are by no means 'streamlined' for a surface tow.

Sorry if my original simple comment, that there are considerations with the hose has distracted this thread so much.

It made it more interesting.

 

[noah977]

The plot thickens a bit.

I've settled on Apeks, but NONE of the LDS have them in stock. I might be able to get a set ordered online, but shipping time might mean I don't have it for my upcoming trip, and I'm worried about service since that brand isn't big here.

It seems like most of the shops here are heavily SP. There is also a fair bit of Mares, Aqualung, and Hollis.

Any suggestions as to Aqualung and/or Hollis. Or, more directly, WHICH Aqualung/Hollis would be comparable to an Apeks XTX50?

Thanks!

 

[Tbar]

It seems like most of the shops here are heavily SP.

Do you have a reason not to go with Scubapro? I know there was some comment on the S560 being crap, but it is that same reg as older the S600 with a different purge cover, only recently have SP gone back to metal barrels on the S600. I personally have 17 s600, 1 s360 and 1 s560. One of the s600s (converted from a G500) has a metal barrel I cant tell the difference in any of these. We have had some debate over the merits of metal and plastic I am not wanting to start that again! Then there is the S360 that is the old S555, or a S560 without user adjustment. If you are not diving really cold then the MK25 is a great 1st stage or you could go for the MK17 (sealed diaphragm) 1st stage.