New diver - questions and thoughts on regulator setup

[BoltSnap]

The setup can have a profound impact on your safety. Have a discussion with any non tech Rescuer Trained diver and see if they are trained anything other than 'normal' set-up. The long hose can be a problem particularly when used on a 'heavy' bpw. The rescuer needs to follow a pattern to remove the gear, GUI train for this PADI do not. I have recently been involved in refresh/training for a number of rigs, DIR, side-mount... The long hose proved to be one of the problematic areas.

None of us want or expect to need rescue, if you do then you will be relying on another persons training/skills. I do not know many dive masters who have actually trained at rescuing differing configs.

Just saying this may well be a serious life-safety decision, that your dive instructors have not mentioned.

If we just go with what PADI teaches, the diving world will be a very small limited world. You are also implying that if new technology or a better way to do things comes along, one can't use it until "PADI" approves it. If so, we wouldn't be using NITROX today for example.

 

[timz]

Noah,

Learning how to dive from an Internet forum is a standing joke.

You have been trained to dive with a particular setup by real physical people who were responsible for your safety and teaching you properly.

With 8 dives you are now taking the advice of total strangers who owe you no duty of care.

Contradiction the advice you have decided to take leads to long and boring arguments, so just because nobody have does not mean there is consensus on an appropriate set up for someone in your position.

Do some dives the way you were taught, get comfortable in the water and then think whether you need to change anything. Changing too much at once makes it hard to tell if you have improved things.

The difference in configuration is about hose lengths and other ancillary stuff. You do not need to decide on that before deciding on the brand of regulator to buy.

If you afford it do buy from a local shop. They will want to keep you as a regular customer and will, in my experience, give at least half decent advice. You will need those shops for gas fills, buying from abroad will not help keep a compressor available near you.

Can't agreed more.

I travel dive a lot and very rarely encounter another person in a BP/W or long hose set up, should I switch back? Am I at risk?

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 06:24 AM ----------

Ah ok, sorry, I think I get your meaning, are you're saying that due to lack of knowledge/experience he may put himself at risk? Not explaining set up with buddy/DM before dive etc?

In PADI, we were taught with the Octo under our right arm and sharing our Octo.

Long hose set up from what I've seen so far are mostly for tech divers which have a different set of drill as their training that we PADI divers may not be familiar with.

 

[buddhasummer]

Can't agreed more.

In PADI, we were taught with the Octo under our right arm and sharing our Octo.

Long hose set up from what I've seen so far are mostly for tech divers which have a different set of drill as their training that we PADI divers may not be familiar with.

My question was tongue in cheek. It is not only for tech divers solely, the necessity for a 7' hose is, due to narrow passages and possibly needing to swim single file but using a 40" routed under arm with adaptor or a 5' hose work just as well in a recreational setting. The configuration makes sense rec or tec. It's simply solved by explaining to your insta buddy your set up. I've done it hundreds of times it's never been an issue. It's not rocket science after all.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 07:28 AM ----------

Tbar, how can a long hose with heavy back plate be problematic? Don't mean to be a dick but I'm just not seeing it, it's two hoses, weight on your back and a harness without quick disconnects. If a buddy or DM can't understand the set up after a 1 minute conversation then I'm not sure I want to buddy with them. It's just not that hard.

 

[uncfnp]

The setup can have a profound impact on your safety. Have a discussion with any non tech Rescuer Trained diver and see if they are trained anything other than 'normal' set-up...//...

Yep. I did rescue in BPW, 40 inch hose primary and bungeed second. Buddy was in BPW with 40 inch hose primary and inline alternate inflator combo. Instructor was in standard "Padi" setup.

None of us want or expect to need rescue, if you do then you will be relying on another persons training/skills. I do not know many dive masters who have actually trained at rescuing differing configs.

Just saying this may well be a serious life-safety decision, that your dive instructors have not mentioned.

I don't know about your dive boat but the ones I dive have divers in about every different configuration. Inline alternates, octos, bungeed seconds, jacket BCD, BPW, doubles. Our DM's have seen it all. And few of the divers are relying on any DM for rescue. In the water its buddy or solo. And hopefully your buddy knows your setup. If he/she is an instabuddy, and this has been discussed on SB frequently, predive discussion should include this.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 07:54 AM ----------

Noah,

Learning how to dive from an Internet forum is a standing joke.

You have been trained to dive with a particular setup by real physical people who were responsible for your safety and teaching you properly.

With 8 dives you are now taking the advice of total strangers who owe you no duty of care.

Contradiction the advice you have decided to take leads to long and boring arguments, so just because nobody have does not mean there is consensus on an appropriate set up for someone in your position.

Do some dives the way you were taught, get comfortable in the water and then think whether you need to change anything. Changing too much at once makes it hard to tell if you have improved things.

The difference in configuration is about hose lengths and other ancillary stuff. You do not need to decide on that before deciding on the brand of regulator to buy.

If you afford it do buy from a local shop. They will want to keep you as a regular customer and will, in my experience, give at least half decent advice. You will need those shops for gas fills, buying from abroad will not help keep a compressor available near you.

Someone didn't let me in on this joke. SB has had a profound impact on my diving and I at least think it is all to my benefit. My pocketbook may disagree.

I agree that no diver should follow internet advice blindly but I doubt that ever happens. For proof just look at the various advice offered in this thread. A reader has to think it through and decide on the advice that best fits his or her needs.

I read on SB about solo divers. I see it everywhere I dive and realize we do it too but not safely. We take SDI Solo and get ponies.

I read on SB about BPW's. I get one. My buddy sees it in action. Now he has one too.

I read on SB about long hose/40 inch hose. Tried both. Kept 40 inch for recreational. My buddy sees me diving it. Now he's got it.

At the same time I switched from inline alternate to bungeed backup, thanks to SB. Its taken the longest, but this upcoming trip, Eric is giving it a try.

All this I learned from SB.

 

[BoltSnap]

Their divemasters must be really stupid and incompetent since they can't figure out how to handle longer hoses and BPW rigs. BUT, they are PADI trained so that is understandable.

 

[buddhasummer]

Their divemasters must be really stupid and incompetent since they can't figure out how to handle longer hoses and BPW rigs. BUT, they are PADI trained so that is understandable.

Steady on there, I'm Padi trained...but Scubaboard taught.

 

[halocline]

The setup can have a profound impact on your safety. Have a discussion with any non tech Rescuer Trained diver and see if they are trained anything other than 'normal' set-up. The long hose can be a problem particularly when used on a 'heavy' bpw.

Please explain how diving with a long hose and BP/W is problematic for a rescue.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 08:16 AM ----------

In PADI, we were taught with the Octo under our right arm and sharing our Octo.

This will work out perfectly right up until the moment when an OOA diver grabs the regulator out of your mouth. Then, I believe, your opinion of the short primary hose-"golden triangle" bit will really change.

PADI is a very large business. It's number one goal is to make money, plain and simple. It is not particularly interested in cutting edge or innovative dive training. It survives by enabling dive shop members to get as many people as possible through OW classes so they can buy gear.

 

[timz]

Please explain how diving with a long hose and BP/W is problematic for a rescue.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 08:16 AM ----------



This will work out perfectly right up until the moment when an OOA diver grabs the regulator out of your mouth. Then, I believe, your opinion of the short primary hose-"golden triangle" bit will really change.

PADI is a very large business. It's number one goal is to make money, plain and simple. It is not particularly interested in cutting edge or innovative dive training. It survives by enabling dive shop members to get as many people as possible through OW classes so they can buy gear.

Actually, it does happened before. And it was during my OW trip after I've completed all my skill test and went for my fun dive having my instructor as buddy.

This guy just rush over us showing me the OOA sign. My instructor taught us to hold our primary reg before it was being grabbed ur OOA diver and pull out our Octo to him/her.

 

[tbone1004]

with a 40" hose there is no difference. With a long hose, it isn't rocket science, but should have been gone over in pre-dive checks....

 

[noah977]

I just came here for some different opinions on regulator setups, not to start a flame war.

However, I'd like to add that a lot of this depends on the individual. (Throughout my life, I've been certified in a number of "life risking" sports, including earning a pilot's license.) Understandably, the "standard" training is designed for the masses. The goal is to get the most people certified in the safest way possible. Keep it simple and standard so anyone can be safe. Then, the people who are more interested / smarter / curious / etc can make educated decisions about where and when to adopt some alternate procedures.

Assuming that a 40" hose on a primary will automatically kill me or my buddy is closed minded. I'm more than happy to educate my buddy and/or DM about which hose is my primary and which is for backup. If they don't understand that in about 60 seconds, then they're not someone I want to dive with.

Now, can we please table this silly debate, and get back to discussing regulators.