New diver - questions and thoughts on regulator setup

[wetb4igetinthewater]

First, yoke valves are much more durable with regards to being knocked around than are yoke [I'm assuming you meant DIN] valves. For an individual tank owner, this is usually not an issue as our tanks don't get tossed around by various tank fillers, DMs, boat crews, delivery men, etc... on a daily basis. But for a charter using rental tanks, it is an issue. DIN tanks would not stand up to the abuse of yoke tanks in this type of use. Many divers confuse rental yoke tanks with individually owned DIN tanks, and it's not a fair comparison.

Second, while a DIN valve in perfect shape does offer a very secure captured o-ring that can stand up to very high pressure, yoke valves hardly are problematic for recreational pressures and settings. They're used every day all over the world. Yoke does provide for a metal-metal contact between the valve and the regulator, it's just not threaded. It's a good idea for any diver on a boat to carry a few extra tank valve o-rings. This is true for both yoke and DIN users.

Can you explain the issue with tanks being "tossed around"? As I'm just not getting it. Are you talking about when the regulator is attached to the valve? I don't see the difference between a yoke and DIN valve (though they often can be converted by simply removing the adapter).

I'll give you a real world example while on vacation why DIN is better: night dive, everyone rushed onto the boat, short travel time, you are bouncing around, you can't do a proper check, and your O-ring needs to be replaced. Just wasn't going to happen, at least for me when I did a night dive off PDC. Towards the end of the dive, the O-ring went, and I was at 0 PSI, but at the surface.

Now, I have no skin in the game. I have both DIN and yoke regulators. I prefer DIN for not having to deal with that O-ring. I just don't see an issue of tanks being tossed around, however. My understanding is that yokes are preferred due to the fact that it takes less time to swap out tanks. My ears are open for any other reasons.

I found on the Yucatan, the tanks are pretty well beat up and they try to squeeze as many dives as possible out of them. I get that. There isn't a concern on whether a diver has to cut his or her dive short or has an issue underwater. <shrug>

I call ahead and find out if I can use my DIN regulator, if not, I use my yoke. I would never use an adapter. But, I didn't get a DIN until I had been diving a while, and I got my DIN regulators at DM prices, which made it more palatable.

 

[halocline]

Can you explain the issue with tanks being "tossed around"? As I'm just not getting it. Are you talking about when the regulator is attached to the valve? I don't see the difference between a yoke and DIN valve (though they often can be converted by simply removing the adapter).

DIN valves are surprisingly vulnerable to getting knocked out of round when there's no regulator attached, and actually the 300 bar valves even more so. There's not a lot of metal around the threaded recess. The exposed threads are another issue; again, when it's a personal tank or a tank owned by a small tech-oriented shop that takes care of them, not a problem, but in a rental environment on big charters, any grit or even standing water in those threads can cause lots of problems over time.

For the example you gave about a yoke o-ring going out on a dive boat, you could have just as easily encountered a slightly dinged DIN valve that would either not allow a regulator to be fully screwed in place to seal, or cross threaded. At least with the yoke valve there's the option to change the valve o-ring.

I'm not knocking DIN valves; I own DIN tanks and use them frequently. I just don't think they'd stand up to the kind of abuse that rental yoke tanks get all the time in that type of environment. People frequently compare old beat up yoke rentals to their own DIN tanks that live a pampered life by comparison.

BTW, the convertible 200 bar DIN valves are fairly new; there are LOTS of older 300 bar DIN valve out there in use. There's a really big issue with the convertible valves for rental fleets in that if you don't remove the yoke adapter plug after salt water dives, it's likely to get badly stuck in place. Those are unprotected threads and dried salt water really wreaks havoc on them. For an individual owner, fine, just take out the plugs. For a large rental fleet with a couple hundred tanks, good luck!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

DIN valves are surprisingly vulnerable to getting knocked out of round when there's no regulator attached, and actually the 300 bar valves even more so. There's not a lot of metal around the threaded recess. The exposed threads are another issue; again, when it's a personal tank or a tank owned by a small tech-oriented shop that takes care of them, not a problem, but in a rental environment on big charters, any grit or even standing water in those threads can cause lots of problems over time.

Now I get it. Crystal clear. Thanks.

 

[Tbar]

Now, there is a significant difference between the MK17 and MK25. Sealed diaphragm vs. piston. AND a big jump in price. I guess the appropriate question is: Is the piston that much better than the sealed diaphragm that it warrants an extra $XXX?

On the $ side do you have a strict budget or are you after 'best value for money'. If it is the later then there is always juggling on what makes 'bets value for money' and this varies by person and needs. If there is a max $ then at least that can rule out some options.

If you want the flexibility in hose routing the MK17 may not be best as it does not have the 5th "end" LP. The MK21 can be supplied with the 5th port but does not have the swivel and is a little lighter than the MK25. The MK17 and MK21 are about the same cost. They offer a less expensive option to the MK25, but the MK25 has the end port and swivel... and I expect parts almost anywhere in the world.

The S560 is much the same as the S600, but with the plastic barrel. If you are not diving very cold water this will probably not be a noticeable difference but it is lower cost than the G260 and s600. You can buy the s600 purge cover for about $30 and you s560 will look just like a s600

For the alternate second my preference is to match the primary, but you could go to a s360, which is the same balanced reg as the s560/s600 but without the user adjustment. This can be upgraded later, I have purchased the upgrade kits for about $us40.

Given that the s560/s360 use the same service kits as the s600 then parts will be available almost anywhere in the world.

At the end of the day it must be your choice and you must be comfortable with the product and what you pay.

 

[timz]

If the OP stated that he is going to dive alot in SEA, Then yoke is more convenient because almost all recreational dive operator around SEA uses Yoke tanks.

 

[Tbar]

It doesn't cost a lot for a DIN conversion kit for a Scubapro reg - Scubapro DIN Conversion Kit Universal | eBay. So going from Yoke to DIN is relatively painless, going the other way is more costly. Buy the yoke and if need in the future buy the DIN conversion (note this is a conversion not an adaptor)

 

[Centrals]

Apeks is difficult and expensive to get in HK nowadays! No such problem when Mandarin divers was the importer back in last century!!! I didn't have any problem buying DS4, DST, US1, US4, UST etc etc off the shelves. But everything changed after Aqualung acquired Apeks.
If you are looking for DST/XTX50 combination, forget about getting them locally. Your best bet is Europe or USA. (Incidentally, you know which LSD is to be avioded, I havn't set foot in that place for well over 15yrs!)
Why DST over DS4? I prefer DS4 because it doesn't has a turret. But DST is great as a deco reg.

I thought 4thelement will ship to Hong Kong.

It is very easy to convert DIN to Yoke or vice versa for Apeks regs. All you need is a 6mm(?) allen key, a 3/4"(19mm) closed head spanner and the yoke converter. A spare 011 o-ring would be useful to replace the old one.
Good luck.

 

[BoltSnap]

For the alternate second my preference is to match the primary, but you could go to a s360, which is the same balanced reg as the s560/s600 but without the user adjustment. This can be upgraded later, I have purchased the upgrade kits for about $us40.

I am not certain of what you can upgrade the S360 to but if you mean to add the "user adjustment" knob to the S360 for $40, then you are better off buying the S560 second stage from the beginning since it will be a couple of $$ less than upgrading the S360.

 

[Centrals]

Home | Online Shop | W+S Water Safety Europe GmbH | Seit 1999
Apeks Yoke kit for Eur 49.95(w/o VAT).
They will ship to Australia for VAT free so should be the same for HK.

Good Luck.

 

[Tbar]

I am not certain of what you can upgrade the S360 to but if you mean to add the "user adjustment" knob to the S360 for $40, then you are better off buying the S560 second stage from the begging since it will be a couple of $$ less than upgrading the S360.

Agreed.

However, if you can find a deal on the s360 its an option. I managed to get two s360 for 196euro so 98euro each or approx $us110.

Or, if $s are tight the s360 may be an option for now and then upgrade later. To me the s360 is better than taking a R195 or R095.

All food for thought...