Are some signals just plain stupid?

[Z Gear]

I have seen several instances where uncomfortable divers in the water have simply pushed their mask up on the forehead or down to their neck. I like to explain to students that it is inconvienent to lose and it is a sign ( a sign is something you see in others) that they are in control if they have the presence of mind to properly and safely secure/stow it against being lost by doing something. They give me the OK sign and do something rational like safeguarding equipment there is a pretty good chance they really are OK. The mask on the forehead is something that will cause a little more scrutiny before I decide.

Now one time discussing hand signals in a class did cause issues when a five year old had come in to the classroom unknown to us and ended up shooting the bird to her mother later that night.

Is the "OK sign" they show you on the surface, the fist on top of head, or is it the OK sign we all use when we go under water?

 

[gcarter]

Initiate a rescue? Maybe not. But I, and most people I dive with, would notice a mask on a forehead and pay closer attention. I have never said anything to another diver who was not in my group, but if I had diver who was in my immidate group, like a new OW or someone who was becoming a regular in my scuba circle, I would politely mention not putting their mask on their foreheads if they are not in distress.

The mask isn't a full blown rescue alarm, it is notification that something MIGHT be amiss.

My response would be to laugh at you.

Mind you, when I am in the water my mask is generally squarely on my face. Nonetheless...

 

[RJP]

What should be taught is that it is not anything except a mask on the forehead UNLESS OTHER distress signs are present.

That is what is taught... or at least what should be.

---------- Post added October 9th, 2015 at 12:03 AM ----------

My response would be to laugh at you.

Yeah, me too. Much as a MOF causes me to take notice... I don't run around telling people NOT to do it. Would be like telling someone not to cough because it's a sign they have the plague.

 

[hroark2112]

Maybe Z Gear should come out with a nice big folding sign that all divers can carry...with a big OK on one side and a big OH CRAP!!! on the other side.

How about another sign that says "I'm panicking!!!" so that we can all stop putting our masks on our foreheads when we're panicking.

 

[Z Gear]

Maybe Z Gear should come out with a nice big folding sign that all divers can carry...with a big OK on one side and a big OH CRAP!!! on the other side.

How about another sign that says "I'm panicking!!!" so that we can all stop putting our masks on our foreheads when we're panicking.

I guess I should look at this as a compliment. Thanks!

But really Hoark, if you think this signal is adequate and effective then I guess this topic makes no sense to you. I on the other hand feel this sign/signal is flawed .Furthermore I on occasion will flip my mask over my fore head , I see others at times who do this as well. How can this signal be effective if so many are practicing this habit of MOF in a non distress manner?

The fact is, in a real panic situation, the diver is probably going to yank his mask off and there goes the "MOF" distress signal!
This distress sign has shown to be confusing and not reliable and it should be substituted by another sign/signal.

Whats wrong with a signal like, "waving arms" this seems to be effective to get attention". Why can't this be considered as a distress signal over water?


Frank G
Z GEAR - Z Gear

 

[FishLovingStudent]

My response would be to laugh at you.

Mind you, when I am in the water my mask is generally squarely on my face. Nonetheless...

+1

I keep it backwards on my head heading in and in rough waters (or I just keep it on). When Im exiting I will usually put it on my forehead. Too lazy to flip it when I'm exiting with ~120ish pounds of gear and uncomfortable down at my neck (and adds to the clutter that is sidemount).

Had a few people comment on it, usually just go with "Don't even start!!!" If its choppy and we are swimming out I do make the effort to tell people in my group (at least beginners) to not leave it on their forehead. So, more of a situational rule. But as a sign of distress? Well, I kinda am in distress when I'm trying to climb out of the water in doubles and a camera rig

 

[chillyinCanada]

I too keep my mask on and reg in when boat diving or in water too deep to retrieve the mask should it get knocked off. Interesting that it seems most or all of the replies (from mostly more experienced divers than me) seem to agree that most of the time it by itself is not indicative of panic (especially if on land!). So how come all of the 12 instructors I have DMd for still admonish it to students?

Because waves can and do knock the masks off. Further, why give anyone even the slightest concern that you're on the edge?

If I take my mask off at all, it's always around my neck. Then I'll forget it's there. If i had a dollar for everytime a dive guide laughed at me when I've been searching for my mask after diving is done . . .

 

[Storker]

Is the "OK sign" they show you on the surface, the fist on top of head, or is it the OK sign we all use when we go under water?

I'm not C P, but here's my opinion:

The fist on head "OK" sign is easily recognizable, from a distance, against glare, in chop and with thick gloves. The forefinger on thumb "OK" sign isn't. Which is why up here the former is generally taught and used as the standard OK sign between a diver on the surface and the dive leader/boat tender¹. So, in any type of comms between diver and surface personnel, it's normally the fist on head that's used. The forefinger on thumb is more or less reserved for underwater communication or between divers on the surface.

Now, there is one sign which in my opinion is, if not stupid, at least completely unnecessary. I call it the choking the chicken sign. It's not unlike the UK "wanker" sign



It's taught as a substitute for the forefinger on thumb if you're wearing gloves, but to me it's obvious that whoever invented that sign hasn't dived much with gloves. Unless you're using mittens, there's no problem making the standard forefinger on thumb, and I've never seen two-finger mittens used for diving. Divers up here use either thick 3-fingers or drygloves, and I haven't seen either of those creating any problems with showing a standard forefinger-on-thumb.



¹ Even at short distances. When I dive from a boat, the first thing I do when I surface after the jump or backroll is to turn against the boat and give the fist-on-head. The tender/dive leader replies the same way, so I know that they know I'm OK. It gives me a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling, and I was actually a little confused on my first warm water dive when I did the same and no-one aboard seemed to check on me after my jump, much less answer my signal...

 

[Storker]

If I take my mask off at all, it's always around my neck. Then I'll forget it's there. If i had a dollar for everytime a dive guide laughed at me when I've been searching for my mask after diving is done . . .

For me, the mask around the neck is a bit awkward. I've got a thick hood, a short neck, I'm using a bungeed secondary on a fairly short necklace, and my DS has a nice, thick warmneck. There's not much free estate between my chin and my shoulders. If I pull my mask down below my chin, it collides with my secondary, and with all that neoprene it's not that easy to move it all the way to the back. So usually, it sits a little to the side. But it's still a bit awkward.

 

[NAM001]

I agree, no one is taught that. what they are taught is that it is a possible sign of distress. The problem is , is that any one that is not in distress is acussed of being so because the mask is not in the normal position. Its a natural progression of logic to come to the distress conclusion. Much like a car on the side of the road is an indication of a breakdown. Any one stopping to stretch their legs is therefore wrongfully assumed to be broke down. I have often wished that OW classes would teach a formal signal for distress that anyone can use that will not be mistaken for anything else and leave the mask out of it. That however is not possible. I often take my mask and run the backup reg or the longhose reg hose through it and clip it off, while on the surface transit. Still folks ask if i am ok cause they react to abnormal mask placement. NOt a bit of concern about no reg in mouth.

STOP STOP STOP

You seem to bring this up all the time. Why?

MOF is not a SIGNAL... it is a potential SIGN. No one is taught that they should put their mask on their forehead to signal distress any more than people suffering from a heart attack are taught to "fall on the floor and turn blue" in order to signal for help.

You really need to get a dictionary out and look up the words SIGNAL and SIGN and see if you can understand the difference.

Seriously.

[/rant]