Quality Plastic Buckles? Want to Switch from SS to Something Lightweight

[ams511]

Since we have switched now to the best travel backplate, there really isn't a good traditional one out there. Zeagle's Exress Tech and Dive Rite's Hunter Pack fit that niche nicely with a wing mounted to a cloth/fiber back late. Light and flexible, but perfect for single tanks.

I have an Express Tech which I never used. What I disliked about it was it was a PITA to disassemble compared to either a DSS or even a Halcyon. It did not appear to be much of an improvement in packing over my old Beuchat and SeaTec BCs. Also the inflator hose was way too long. It was a good idea but needed some tweaking. To me the ideal would be to fit a entire warm water rig (including fins) in a regulation airline carry-on.

---------- Post added September 18th, 2015 at 08:29 PM ----------

Halcyon Traveler Pro would be my pick.

I am not sure of the weight reduction over a plain Eclipse with an Al backplate and a lightweight STA.

 

[eelnoraa]

What is the weight of a medium kydex plate? Having seem the material, I can't imagine it isn't lighter than Al. Could it be because Al plate is already very light (2lb), even 25% reduction, 0.5lb, may not feel much, but it is already a huge percentage.

 

[cool_hardware52]

What is the weight of a medium kydex plate? Having seem the material, I can't imagine it isn't lighter than Al. Could it be because Al plate is already very light (2lb), even 25% reduction, 0.5lb, may not feel much, but it is already a huge percentage.

There have been pure ABS plates produced for years. These plates had a deserved reputation for cracking. Straight ABS is a poor choice for such an application, more so when they are not stress relieved after forming.

DSS Kydex plates are a hybrid of Kydex and Stainless Steel. Kydex is a very tough thermoplastic alloy of acrylic and pvc. Kydex is commonly used for gun holsters, knife sheaths and commercial aircraft interiors.

In addition to using kydex the DSS plates are reinforced at all stress points with 16 gauge Stainless overlays, at the harness slots and center channel.

The combination of Kydex with a specific gravity of a bit under 1, and the stainless reinforcements results in a finished plate that is typically a few 1/10ths of a pound lighter than the typical 1/8 thick Aluminum plate.

The advantages are a bit of flex (actually a welcome thing in thin suits) and the corrosion resistance of plastic and Stainless Steel. The disadvantage is Kydex is expensive, the 5 stainless reinforcements are expensive and production of these plates and the associated riveting is labor intensive.

Tobin

 

[diversteve]

Actually, I think they are nicer in the cave diver forum. I am not sure which other forums are still active. The Deco Stop and Dive Matrix seem pretty dead.

Dive Matrix closed down last year. So that's a pretty accurate statement..lol.

 

[The Chairman]

I have an Express Tech which I never used. What I disliked about it was it was a PITA to disassemble compared to either a DSS or even a Halcyon. It did not appear to be much of an improvement in packing over my old Beuchat and SeaTec BCs. Also the inflator hose was way too long. It was a good idea but needed some tweaking. To me the ideal would be to fit a entire warm water rig (including fins) in a regulation airline carry-on.

I have six but could always use another! Why would you want to "disassemble" it? I agree with the hose, and have replaced all of mine with much shorter ones and have added a crotch strap with Tobin's awesome Butt Plate. In fact, all of the SS D-rings on them are rigid DSS ones. I use them for my OW students and anyone who wants to borrow one.

The advantages are a bit of flex (actually a welcome thing in thin suits) and the corrosion resistance of plastic and Stainless Steel. The disadvantage is Kydex is expensive, the 5 stainless reinforcements are expensive and production of these plates and the associated riveting is labor intensive.

It's obvious that it's work intensive, but the result is beautiful. I almost exclusively dive side mount when I need doubles, but I recently dove back mounted doubles off of the Spree recently. My DSS Kydex back plate was my go-to solution and I remembered all over why I really liked it. It's almost alive on your back, providing all the support you need but giving a tad when you need it to.

 

[RJP]

I am not sure of the weight reduction over a plain Eclipse with an Al backplate and a lightweight STA.

The Traveler plate is lighter than Al. Plus, the harness hardware on the Traveler is Al, not steel. And the Traveler doesn't need an STA. I'd guess the Traveler Pro would be 1.5lbs lighter than a plain Eclipse, AL plate, and STA. The regular non "pro" Traveler would be a touch lighter still.

But more importantly - to me anyway - is the way that the Traveler Pro plate takes weights.

Once you travel to your dive destination you can add up to 16lbs of weight to the plate itself (Specs say 12lbs - 4x 3lbs - but 4lb weights fit.) distributed in the same fashion as on a steel plate. Accordingly, the Halcyon Traveler can be set up to trim out exactly the same as a 6lb stainless plate, a 6lb plate plus a non-weighted STA, a 6lb plate plus a weighted STA, a 6lb plate plus weighted STA plus a few lbs of trim weight. However you like.

For single-tank recreational diving I currently travel with my steel plate and weighted STA because I [-]like[/-] love the way it trims out. I have an aluminum plate as well, but don't travel with it because I [-]don't like[/-] hate the way it trims with a single AL80.

The Halcyon Traveler provides a diver with the best of both worlds: a rig that flies like a plastic travel BC and dives like a steel BP/W.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The Traveler plate is lighter than Al.

Are you sure? The typical al plate will be ~1/3 the weight of a SS plate of similar thickness, often a bit more because 1/8" al is often used (.125") vs .118 for 11 gauge Stainless. That puts the typical Al plate at about 1.8-1.9 lbs

I just weighed some DSS goods.

LCD 30 wing with the inflator assembly is 2.6 lbs

Kydex plate alone 1.6 lbs

Harness kit with lots of extra webbing and all stainless hardware, heavy duty buckle etc. 1.8 lbs. After trimming probably more like 1.6 lbs.

Pair of cambands and wedge blocks 0.8 lbs.

If you take 6 lbs (claimed weight for a "Traveler") and back out the cambands (.8) the harness with Al hardware (~.8 maybe) and wing ~2.4 lbs (Lighter weight materials 1000 denier vs 1050 ballistic we use and 400 denier bladder vs 300 mil urethane we use) you end up with a plate at about 2 lbs. Close to an al plate, but not really lighter.

Do you have one you can weigh? I'm curious.

Tobin

 

[RJP]

Do you have one you can weigh? I'm curious.

Tobin

Nope, but when I've handled the traveler and the AL plate side by side it felt lighter. Maybe imagination. Either way, as mentioned, its appeal is beyond a potential minor weight difference as compared to Al.

 

[PfcAJ]

Actually, I think they are nicer in the cave diver forum.

mostly because CDF is moderated to hell. Any disagreement with anyone is met with post deletions and scoldings. Things could turn "uncivil".

I appreciate the lack of black slapping/circle-jerking we have here on SB.

 

[eelnoraa]

So for I am bored and dig up some old gears measurement and did some measurement for current gears, here is what I got. pictures can be provided upon request:

1. DiveRite regular size SS plate (advertised to be 6lb): 5.06lb
2. Halcyon small size SS plate (advertised to be 5lb): 4.12lb
3. SS buckle (DiveRite, Halcyon, DGX): 0.34lb. They all look the same except the logo. DGX spec is very accurate at 0.35lb
4. DIR harness for my size, ~9ft webbing, crotch strap, Dalton style holster and knife, 2x SS buckle, 7 d-rings, 7 triglides (including 2 on crotch strap): 2.06lb
5. Halcyon regular size Al plate (advertised to be 2lb): 1.45lb
6. Halcyon Evolve 40lb: 2.38lb
7. Halcyon Eclipse 30lb: 2.06lb
8. Halcyon Non weighted STA: 0.92lb
9. Halcyon octo grip cam band: 0.65lb each

I do have a regular size H plate, but it is on loan. I can measure it once I get it back. But I don't have a small size H Al plate for comparison. If I go travel today, #4, #5, #7, #8 and #9x2 go with me, together 7.78lb.

If I were to take Tobin's seteup. 1.6lb kydex plate, 1.6lb harness, 0.8lb bands, 2.6lb wing, it is 6.6lb. Let's say 0.2lb is for the knife and holster. This is a weight saving of 1lb over the H setup.

Using my H setup for example, going to DSS delrin cam bands will save me 0.7lb. Going from SS buckles to XS glass filled $12 a pop buckles will save me 0.2lb each, total 0.4lb. My setup will from 7.78lb to 6.68lb, comparible to DSS setup. Realistically, how much lighter is it going to get? Maybe it is time to look for a lightweight suit case or duffle bag instead.