Non professional divers taking very young children diving (even in a pool)

[cerich]

The whole argument of there being a requirement for somebody to produce a c card when purchasing "life support" gear for diving is a false one.

We (dive industry) only started that to support the local shops versus mail order in the 60's and while some folks still parrot it the truth is most shops don't bother and a significant amount of dive gear is sold online, traded, yard sales, etc.

One of our problems is that the industry adopts their own "laws" that aren't then imposes their will on the potential customer base versus meeting their needs. Even good safe practices that we should educated about we present as absolutes, often turning people off. Don't even get me into the shops that demand to inspect gear not bought from them for "insurance liability" reasons (a lie)

I can't help but feel a little more meet their needs with a smile and offer a value add to our services instead of lies will go some distance to improving diving for everybody, both the fun and the economics.

 

[boulderjohn]

What was the cause of death? Lung overexpansion? Also, what were the ratios?

The point of the video was to show poor actions by both the instructor and the DM. This was 10 years ago, so I don't remember all of it. The key was the instructor was not paying adequate attention to the student's anxiety before the dive and the fact that the student clearly said that she did not have a lot of air left in her tank. While they were doing skills under water, the DM's attention was on the instructor demonstrating the skills, not on the student, who was growing increasingly anxious. The student ran out of air and bolted to the surface, where she died from an embolism almost instantly. As Tami warned earlier, that rapid ascent really covered maybe 5-6 feet.

 

[tstormdiver]

Yes, I know, it's slightly different in that the gramps told you what he was doing. Had he not, and you rented him a tank and sold him a reg, and the 5 year old died, would you have felt responsible? Would you be able to sleep at night?

I think we agree on something here. If he had not said anything,... then because of our ignorance of his intentions, we would have likely sold/ rented him what he wanted. If the child had died & we found out,... I would think anyone with any sense of conscience would feel badly. Being that at that point we had no way of knowing, there is some "relief",... Knowing what he planned & having it happen,... would be very tough to know it could have been prevented.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have been googling all morning and couldn't find a single case. Thanks ill look it up

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Two that pop into my mind were listed in one of the last few reports, and they involved experienced divers testing rebreathers in their pools.

Of course, these grandparents are not going to be using rebreathers, although they theoretically could. The problem, of course, is that a faulty rebreather gives no perceptible physiological warning if the fault results in too little oxygen, so the parent might be watching proudly until the child suddenly passes out.

Although the odds are good that nothing will happen, you have to face the fact that something CAN happen. Instructors are trained on how to prevent those mishaps, but they have happened. I have seen students suddenly start to bolt to the surface in a way that can easily kill them, and when that has happened, I have been in a position to deal with it because I was trained to be in that position. It is not likely that it will happen, but to say that it cannot happen is foolish.

 

[Wookie]

I think we agree on something here. If he had not said anything,... then because of our ignorance of his intentions, we would have likely sold/ rented him what he wanted. If the child had died & we found out,... I would think anyone with any sense of conscience would feel badly. Being that at that point we had no way of knowing, there is some "relief",... Knowing what he planned & having it happen,... would be very tough to know it could have been prevented.

I think we agree on most things. As I've said in a couple of posts, I think you acted in the best interests of yourself, your shop, your agency and your insurance company. I don't think you did a thing wrong. But I do think the pendulum of worrying about liability, taking the fun out of scuba, and scuba police has swung too far and needs to return to where Grandpa can take the kiddies in the pool if he wants. That's a global statement on scuba, not a personal statement of what you did.

And in your position, being an employee of a insured, affiliated dive facility, I would have made the exact same decision. I would have been unhappy with it, but it is the decision I would have made.

 

[Storker]

there is no reason to offer doubles on recreational trips. NDL is going to be the rate limiter for any given dive (airhogs notwitstanding)

As I've said numerous times, there are several reasons for using doubles instead of singles. And my mates who dive doubles claim that they appreciate not having to change tanks between dives (i.e. they do two dives on a doubles set, while we single tank divers change tanks between dives). So that point is rather moot.

I don't know of a single liveaboard on the planet - other than those offering tech diving - that allow/offer doubles.

OK, I think I've confirmed the impression that in your world, doubles ≡ tec. Which it definitely isn't in my world. Like I said, over here, doubles may be either rec or tec. Or both.

 

[RJP]

Nobody has died from scuba in their family pool.

Source, please.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Although I am being argumentative, this is simply not true, at least in the USA anyway. Taken to an extreme, one cannot cook meth on their own property, and parents are not allowed to burn their kids with a cigarette for forgetting to take out the trash.

However, teaching them to scuba dive in the family pool is obviously not an extreme, and probably not even the most dangerous thing the kid will ever experience.

Have we really gotten to the point here where we need to add footnotes to note that obvious exceptions exist to our generalizations? Yes, you are being argumentative.

 

[nimoh]

Have we really gotten to the point here where we need to add footnotes to note that obvious exceptions exist to our generalizations? Yes, you are being argumentative.

no, just making reasonable generalizations would be enough.

 

[Lorenzoid]

no, just making reasonable generalizations would be enough.

So my statement to the effect that parents (generally, i.e., with obvious exceptions) have the prerogative to choose their children's activities on their own property is unreasonable?