Is a Back Plate w/ Wing really cheaper?

[freewillie]

For a long time when a new diver asks questions and advice for new BC purchase within a few responses someone will eventually throw out that a back plate with wing set up is the best and most affordable way to start. I will agree that if a diver plans to dive double tanks or use side mount that a back plate wing is the only way to go. I will also agree that for customization purposes you can change from cold water to warm water wings and not have to purchase two different BC's. And I used to assume that when someone said that is was a less expensive way to start purchasing gear until I started looking at the cost of the individual components.

Looking at several websites including the Halcyon website, Scuba.com, Leisurepro, and Scubatoys (the last three being actual online sites I have purchased gear) I found that when you add up the components it can get quite expensive. I found a harness system for $60, a pack plate for about $71 but most were at least $100 or more, and a wing for $300. All total it came to about $431. The average cost I would say for a back plate with wing would more likely run around $580 which would be $130 for the harness, $150 for the back plate, and $300 for the wing. And then I would also have to use a weight belt.

I found an Aqualung Zuma travel BC on sale for $299. I also found a Dive Rite travel back plate with harness on sale for $399. So the back plate with wing set up was still $100 more than an off the self back inflate BC.

My own Zeagle Stiletto back inflate BC cost $500 after a discount from my LDS. That would still be less than the $580 figure I calculated earlier.

So am I missing something? Is a back plate with wing that much less expensive than a regular BC? And just for sake of discussion, the posts here in the New Diver section are divers either finishing their basic OW course or about to start their OW course. They are still a long way from getting enough experience and skills to really utilize the side mount and doubles flexibility of the back plate system.

 

[Lorenzoid]

For a long time when a new diver asks questions and advice for new BC purchase within a few responses someone will eventually throw out that a back plate with wing set up is the best and most affordable way to start. . . .

So am I missing something? Is a back plate with wing that much less expensive than a regular BC? . . . .

I think I've read many of the threads you're referring to, but I don't recall many people saying that a BP/W is the most affordable way to start diving. It seems to me that the economy arises from the configurability, if the diver wants to change to a different wing at some point.

 

[RJP]

Two separate questions:

1.) Is a BP/W cheaper?
2.) Is a BP/W worth more?

The answer to the first question is a firm "it depends"
The answer to the second question is very clear to everyone... no matter which way you answer the question.

:shocked2:

Can you buy a traditional BCD that costs less than a top-shelf BP/W? Sure. But ultimately you can get a great BP/W system that costs less or the same as the typical BCD... which may not be all that great.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Two separate questions:

1.) Is a BP/W cheaper?
2.) Is a BP/W worth more?

But he only asked one question. The answer is no, it is not cheaper. It may be a "bargain" in our minds, but the actual retail price is not lower.

 

[rhwestfall]

Interesting enough, you are picking "high priced" on the PB/W, and "low price" on the Jackets....

look here for some more options (and there are opportunities to do even better):

https://www.divegearexpress.com/bcs/pkg_metal.shtml

Dive Packages - Check out our tech diver packages, and enjoy outstanding cost savings - Dive Right in Scuba

BC/Backplates/Wings - Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Northeast Scuba Supply Store

Cave Adventurers - Single Tank Wings - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!

Also, cost over time... break a buckle on a jacket BC, time to buy the whole new kit (though I have recently seen a possible solution) Tear a webbing, same. Grow/get fat/etc. - same.... Much lower "operating & maintenance cost in a modular system as you can replace parts.

BTW - $60 for a harness is hardly what you need to spend.... its $12 of webbing a buckle, 5 drings, and 5 sliders....


lastly, the "cost" of proper fit is more valuable than the savings of getting by.... YMMV

 

[cannon fodder]

Actually it sounds like low priced jackets with cost $200.00 or less vs average price BP/W. I hear this quite a bit too, that back plates and wings are cheaper and better, but since they are obviously not cheaper, how can I trust the rest of the statement?

 

[tbone1004]

OP, you calculated wrong mate.

$480 is the magic number as that is what DSS's rig currently costs. You can go cheaper, you can go much more expensive, but you don't gain much if anything going more expensive, and don't lose all that much going cheaper within reason.

DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba
$380. This vs. DSS is how much you value made in USA vs. over seas combined with your liking of using an STA or wanting to not use an STA

https://www.divegearexpress.com/bcs/pkg_metal.shtml
this one is $300 and you lose a little functionality with the wing design vs some of the others but it's $300, so that's not bad. Main loss of functionality is how stable the rig is while you're trying to put it on the tank etc, nowhere near as nice as a STA or DSS style rig.

Cheapest rig currently is

Now, in the long run, the backplate will outlast the rig, it also holds resale value infinitely better than stab jackets. $250 will get you the cheapest stab jackets on leisurepro yes, but they are on sale so discontinued or whatever, real value starts around $300. You also need to not compare the absolute cheapest on each, but instead compare the lowest price that you get good value. Those $250 stab jackets are not great quality and you'll be lucky if they last 100 dives. If you want to play that game, see the $300 DGX rig above, it's higher quality that those stab jackets despite having some short comings in the single tank world. Yes the stab jackets are weight integrated, but that isn't always better and with a SS plate and cam bands you can shed 8lbs from your weight belt, for warm water diving that is about all you would want to shed and suck it up and put 4lbs in a weight belt if you need it. If you don't want to, DGX sells trim weight pouches for up to 4lbs each for $10 a piece. Not bad at all if you are that opposed to weight belts.

Other portion of the argument is it is VERY rare that anyone brings up stab jackets in the $250 price range. The usual culprits are *using LP pricing*
Zeagle Express Tech $350 *right in the ballpark of bp/w territory $440 with weight pockets
Scubapro Bella $620
Aqualung Axiom $400
Aqualung i3 $470
Zeagle Zena $550
Scubapro Knighthawk $620

So, on an absolute sense, yes you can buy a stab jacket cheaper, but when you are comparing apples to apples and you start looking at similar quality bc's, you're really looking at rigs like the Knighthawk et al, and for that you are saving direct dollar value.

What is cheaper, buying quality once, or buying junk twice? The bp/w's hold about half their value if not a bit more in the used market, the stab jackets are lucky to keep 30%. Lots of factors to consider other than up front cost, but realistically when you are comparing similar bc's, the bp/w's are actually cheaper.

 

[mikeb21072]

I think it depends on your type of diving and where you dive. My wife dives the Zuma and loves it, but we are warm water divers (Florida and the Cayman's). I doubt you see many people diving dry suits in cold water that would even think about a light weight travel BCD. During my OW training, I only saw a picture of a BP/W setup. Plus, we were flying to do our check out dives in the Cayman's, as opposed to freezing out tails off in a quarry in Maryland with a foot of vis.
I started off with the traditional jacket and did not like it, but never thought of using a BP/W. Plus, I had never seen anyone wearing one. I ended up with the Aqua Lung Dimension i3 and I think it is awesome, but then again, I am risking being found floating face down because nobody will ever figure out what the hell that rubber house is on my left shoulder to manually inflate my BCD. In hindsight, I could have bought a top of the line BP/W for much less than I paid for the i3. If ever it comes the time to replace the BCD, a BP/W would be my only consideration as long as I do not have to mess with a weight belt. For those of us with the flat rear issue, weight belts are a non-starter.

I will try the BP/W out in a couple of months in the Cayman's, but it will have a rebreather attached to it

Mike

 

[KevinNM]

I'm pretty sure my i3 cost me more than what the Halcyon BP/W I currently use would have cost if I didn't buy the BP/W via eBay. And since the i3 was a replacement for the Balance that I got too small for, I would have been FAR ahead if I'd just bought a top end Halcyon at full retail instead.

 

[Bob DBF]

Depends on what you buy. My old, but quite useable, jacket that cost less is hanging in the dive locker and the BP/W's that I've put togather gets used. Several years back I paid $150 for a plate, 6# sta, webbing and hardware. The big money was for the Oxycheq wing at $320. After that I picked up a Freedom Plate from Eric, and later a 50# DiveRite doubles wing on close out for $150.

This week I saw a harness and plate in a shop for $89 in aluminum and $150 in stainless, brand new. The wings will still set you back a pretty penny.

As for buying one, a new diver is going tech it is a no brainer, a rec diver should try one out to see if they like how they dive, in the long run they may save money. My question would be why a BackInflate instead of BP/W?



Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.