More than "Advanced", but not really "Technical"

[victorzamora]

So it is your argument that any computer that does not have multi-gas capabilities is by definition a recreational computer and will give you "unclear" screens when you go into deco with them?

No, that's not at ALL what I said. Like, not even close. My statement was that some computers that are more rec-oriented are not OPTIMAL for deco diving, but they'll be sufficient for minimal and/or accidental deco. More tec-oriented computers provide more highly optimized deco organizations.

 

[DevonDiver]

So it is your argument that any computer that does not have multi-gas capabilities is by definition a recreational computer and will give you "unclear" screens when you go into deco with them?

Most 'rec' computers only supply two pieces of information; (1) Ceiling and (2) Total Time To Surface.

If you are at a 9m ceiling, with a 16 minute time to surface....

• Are you clear about the exact ascent profile and your necessary stop levels/durations between now and surfacing?

• Could you clearly and accurately predict your gas requirement (based on SAC/RMV versus depths and duration at depths) for that remaining ascent?

• Can you compare your ascent profile with that of your buddies, to ensure you will be staying together on ascent?

• Can you amend that ascent, and predict how it will re-calculate your stops?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Most 'rec' computers only supply two pieces of information; (1) Ceiling and (2) Total Time To Surface.

If you are at a 9m ceiling, with a 16 minute time to surface....

• Are you clear about the exact ascent profile and your necessary stop levels/durations between now and surfacing?

• Could you clearly and accurately predict your gas requirement (based on SAC/RMV versus depths and duration at depths) for that remaining ascent?

• Can you compare your ascent profile with that of your buddies, to ensure you will be staying together on ascent?

• Can you amend that ascent, and predict how it will re-calculate your stops?

I don't know about most computers. I use Oceanics mostly for the last 10-12 years, maybe longer. they give you your total ascent time when you go into deco. They also give you your deepest ceiling. As a practical matter, that information is enough to do decompression.

If my total ascent time is 22 minutes and my first stop is 30 feet, it doesn't really matter to me, as i hang there in the water, what type of break down it is going to give me at 30, 20 and 10 feet. I pray that my gas supply is sufficient for it to not matter. Plus I kinda know what the shape of the ascent is going to look like. If I get a 40 ft ceiling, deco is gonna suck... is my rule of thumb. LOL,

The reality of the mater is that I have the gas that I have. If it is enough to get me to the surface, it will. I really don't do a bunch of calculations with my sac and try to make predictions on the fly (once I am hanging for a stop).

You might argue that this information would be useful in an emergency and I could shave off certain portions of each stop if i was running low on air, but that is kinda ridiculous.

As for comparing ascent profile with my buddies... no not so much.. I don't follow the computer precisely anyway, because I add in a deep stop that is not called for by the computer. After many hundreds of these dives, I've just not seen the problems you and others seem to be bringing up. I'm sure a $800 7-gas computer would be very cool, but i don't have the money nor the patience to read the manual.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2014 at 11:30 PM ----------

No, that's not at ALL what I said. Like, not even close. My statement was that some computers that are more rec-oriented are not OPTIMAL for deco diving, but they'll be sufficient for minimal and/or accidental deco. More tec-oriented computers provide more highly optimized deco organizations.

well, actually you DID say they give you "unclear screens".. It was a direct quote..

 

[victorzamora]

So it is your argument that any computer that does not have multi-gas capabilities is by definition a recreational computer and will give you "unclear" screens when you go into deco with them?

The way this reads is "Any computer that doesn't have multi-gas capabilities will give you unclear screens when you go into deco with them"

What I meant was that SOME computers give you unclear screens. And I stand by that....some do. My computer is a "Tech-lite" computer that is 3-gas compatible, but only nitrox (no He). It's very clear in what it tells you.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Well I have not accused you of anything. I ASKED if this was your belief.

I am having a hard time understanding what exactly delineates an unsuitable dive computer from a suitable one... For moderate deco diving... The discussion was confusing to me... So it is not the capability to do multiple gases, it is not the clarity of the screen or information... then what objective criteria should be used to determine suitability for deco?

 

[p1p]

then what objective criteria should be used to determine suitability for deco?

Whether it has some overly penalizing Deco algorithm...

 

[lowviz]

...//... what exactly delineates an unsuitable dive computer from a suitable one... For moderate deco diving... ...//...

That is actually a good question. I have a Uwatec SmartPro and a VR3. Love both. I'm probably one of the eight or nine people on this planet that actually like the VR3, but I do, a lot.

The SmartPro will get me out of light deco with a lot of whining. The VR3 can't be stopped, it just keeps on guessing no matter what I do. (I like to put it on air and dive best mix) Worst I get is an admonition to "use tables", -no worries, try this in the meantime.

So, realizing that I never really got upset about off-topic wanderings after a thread got so long that it just flaps in the current, what would anyone defend as a good middle-of-the-road DC for someone that wanted to regularly enter "light deco" without all the whining and complaining?

 

[victorzamora]

Well I have not accused you of anything. I ASKED if this was your belief.

I am having a hard time understanding what exactly delineates an unsuitable dive computer from a suitable one... For moderate deco diving... The discussion was confusing to me... So it is not the capability to do multiple gases, it is not the clarity of the screen or information... then what objective criteria should be used to determine suitability for deco?

Sorry, I misread your post. I think the difference is a combination of things.

One of the things is the method of displaying information and/or the quantity/quality of information displayed. A more tec-oriented computer seems to give better/more information to divers, assuming they're more capable of really understanding it. That's why I mentioned it. There are, of course, other factors....but I definitely don't think I'm the best to expand on all of them.

However, I will say that I think that the biggest thing was what Jeff mentioned. If my dive computer gets grumpy because I'm in deco, or penalizes me heavily for breaching NDLs it's not something I'd purchase. If it locks me out because of my deco profile, I wouldn't rely on it. A lot of people have mentioned running a Petrel in computer mode, and ignoring its profile and just running cut plans. I think that's a really cool/smart way of doing it....and I must admit I'm tempted to make that my SOP.

---------- Post added January 10th, 2014 at 10:25 PM ----------

what would anyone defend as a good middle-of-the-road DC for someone that wanted to regularly enter "light deco" without all the whining and complaining?

I dive a DG03, and while it's not perfect, I think that the price point and overall divability is good. So, I'll throw that in the mix. The only thing it does that REALLY drives me crazy is it starts yelling at you when your ppO2 goes over 1.2. You can get it to shut up by pushing a button, but it's still stupid that I have to. However, it'll follow you beyond your ppO2 limit and even let you switch to O2 deeper than 20ft, but it'll fuss at you and make you acknowledge that you're doing bad.

 

[lowviz]

...//... The only thing it does that REALLY drives me crazy is it starts yelling at you when your ppO2 goes over 1.2. You can get it to shut up by pushing a button, ...//...

That would be nice to know before you buy. In addition, being able to compare light deco behavior would REALLY be nice! More than a few recreational DC's have been there.:shocked2:

Alberto (Dive Computer Training), it would be most interesting to add each DC's response to being forced into "light" deco. Specifically: List how one is warned, if the alarm can be silenced, and all the penalties for this sort of behavior.

 

[DiveNav]

.....Alberto (Dive Computer Training), it would be most interesting to add each DC's response to being forced into "light" deco. Specifically: List how one is warned, if the alarm can be silenced, and all the penalties for this sort of behavior.

Thank you for mentioning us.

Our dive computers simulators (eDiving, iDive Computer and divePAL) do already include most of the alarms situations (including deco) for the various model-specific dive computers we support and our online classes describe in details how a model-specific dive computer behaves when an alarm is triggered.
This is one of the reason why PADI is now using our divePAL simulator in their new Open Water Diver course.

Alberto (aka eDiver)