Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

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As I knew Quero both on-line and in person, as well as also being a second-career "senior" dive professional myself, her passing hit me particularly hard. Reading this thread has been difficult at times but I am forever grateful for the vast majority of contributions, whether providing facts, asking questions, suggesting chain of events, offering advice, even making wild speculation, regardless of whether there was a direct relationship to this accident or not. I believe all of the discussion was helpful as a learning experience and will make most of think more and be better divers because of it. Quero's last class and final legacy.

Having said that, I guess I should also be grateful that there were about 500 decent posts before some clown started the inevitible PADI bashing. Fortunately, this time the bandwagon seems to be fairly empty. There is hope in the world.
 
I am sure I am not the only person who is a very different diver in a drysuit than in a wet suit. If you look at my dive logs and separate the drysuit dives from the wetsuit dives there are clearly two divers. I have different SACs, equipment, computers and protocols. I rarely plan a solo dive in a wetsuit. I often have a pony in a drysuit. Part of the reason is that I use the drysuit in cold water conditions. But it also has to do with the fact that I often do those dives without a regular buddy. That reality has caused me to think differently about my drysuit diving than my wetsuit diving. I am also subject to different stresses and have different responses to comparable situations. For example, My dive on the Yukon in San Diego was quite hard and short. My dive a couple of years earlier on the Helma Hooker in Bonaire (similar depth) was leisurely and comfortable.

In this situation the victim was out of her element. Even the hood might have made a difference. She might not have even realized how much different the circumstances might be in an emergency. The critical point has already been made. While many skills might carry over, she might have missed something that would not even have been possible in a wetsuit. Until we are informed of a medical cause for this event, it seems reasonable to assume the use of unfamiliar equipment is a critical factor.

A buddy might have helped her, but there is reason to believe she thought she did not need a buddy. In that case, she might not have even looked to a buddy for help.
 
Please don't take this as an attack on the buddies, it's not.

I'm currently reading the GUE "Beginning With the End in Mind - the Fundamentals of Recreational Diving" book and this passage is staying in my mind after this tragic incident.

For most settings, a three person team is most advantageous. This team size provides ideal redundancy, enables a high level of team integrity, and facilitates efficient relaying of information. It also offers excellent mobility, allowing divers to avoid feeling crowded during the dive. A two‐person team is also practical but lacks the added redundancy of a third team member. Conversely, a four‐person team is less optimal ‐ divers should instead opt for two ”sub‐teams” of two divers, which will allow for some separation between the teams.

And it makes me wonder, from the reports, divers 1 to 3 exited together. If Quero had of been diving with just one other diver would they as a team been more prudent about staying together? even if it meant the other diver followed Quero more??

Obviously if one diver continually wanders off, and doesn't participate in good buddy practices, then the second diver may feel as if they were dragged along for the ride etc.....
 
Everyone here should watch this series of videos and see how it applies to them regarding to diving. What boundaries have you stretched and now consider normal

In the incident we have been discussing, regardless of the end cause, this theory applies.

Public Safety Education Network
 
Nah, you got the crap kicked out of you because you insisted her buddy was responsible for her.

I posted no such thing. I bemoaned that she did not have the kind of buddy I've encounter from time to time in that no matter what I did he was always with me. I never asked him too he just did it. I went on to post if she had had a buddy like that she might still be with us.

My original post #237 page 48
Many good points being made and possibilities brought up. Question: Where was her buddy?

Now I'm as or more guilty than anyone of not being a good buddy in that I drift off and do my own thing. That said I've had buddies that just will not let me do that. Every time I think "check on X" there he'd be right behind, above and to my right, every time! It was almost annoying. A much better buddy than I. Darn shame she didn't have a buddy like that.

Lionfish –eater got it.
He wasn't above and to the right of you, he was staying above and to the right of his emergency air supply, that you happened to be carrying around

  1. Originally Posted by Ayisha
Do you think that Marcia was so used to being in the lead and having a group follow her that she had a hard time when it came time for her to be an equal team mate, maybe even follow those who knew the area? I'm not making excuses. Just trying to understand the complicated dynamics that seemed to be going on here.


I posted this in response to Ayisha ‘s post

That doesn't explain her buddy actions. As I posted I've had buddies that just will not me do that, they stuck to my right side like a remora. I'd be distracted taking pics moving around and there'd they'd be. I would not like to have been her buddy today after what happened.

Then Progen posted this thinking I’m disrespecting Quero!

  1. Originally Posted by AfterDark
... I would not like to have been her buddy today after what happened.

1. You won't have the chance for obvious reasons.

2. Have some respect for a well loved person who had obviously paid greatly for a mistake which until now might or might not have been hers.
I posted
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Disrespect Qureo? How by pointing out her buddy didn't follow her around like he should have? I would not like to be her (that) buddy today because I would be blaming myself for her death because as her buddy I wasn't there when she needed me because I let her slip away from me. How is that disrespect?


Trying to make myself clear to Progen I can see where there might be some misunderstanding. My 1st post was I thought quite clear. I should have PM'd my response to progen the way he PM'd his apology to me.
 
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My my point is, when the schit hits the fan, you need to be responsible for yourself. You can't expect someone with your own level of experience, or even an instructor or DM is going to lay their life on the line for you. You are truly alone in these situations, and must have the mindset to save yourself.

Kirk, you forgot to mention that a panicked diver can be a hazard to the buddy and then you have a double fatality. A panicked diver is not going to swim up to their buddy calmly and give the out-of-air sign and wait for the buddy to pass the safe second.
 
I posted no such thing. I bemoaned that she did not have the kind of buddy I've encounter from time to time in that no matter what I did he was always with me. I never asked him too he just did it. I went on to post if she had had a buddy like that she might still be with us.

I'm curious how you know that your wandering ways were the same as those exhibited by Quero. I've been told by two separate individuals that she was extremely difficult to keep track of. One of those people I have dove with and found them to be a very attentive buddy. Could they have spent every second with their eyes on her, sure. Is that realistic during a dive, no. Especially when she was asked repeatedly to stay with them.

I knew Quero probably as well as anyone else here. We chatted quite a bit on a variety of topics from diving to moderation issues, to personal things. I met her when she was in the U.S. and I got to spend several hours getting to know the person behind the keyboard. It really pains and angers me to think that she put herself in this position, but it's my belief that the majority of the separation issue lay with her, not her buddies.
 
How much reserve do you need for 10 ft depth? The question is not why she went down with only a little air, it is why she did not ditch her lead and float up. Endless speculation, but no new information has been released.


Why won't anyone answer the basic question pertaining to what kind of weight belt/integrated weight/ pockets that she was wearing?


This is critical to understanding.. say if the lead was not readily ditched...

I answered this question earlier in the thread. Some of her weight was in unditchable pockets on the Cam band and the rest was in integrated pockets in the BCD.

R..
 
I'm curious how you know that your wandering ways were the same as those exhibited by Quero. I've been told by two separate individuals that she was extremely difficult to keep track of. One of those people I have dove with and found them to be a very attentive buddy. Could they have spent every second with their eyes on her, sure. Is that realistic during a dive, no. Especially when she was asked repeatedly to stay with them.

I knew Quero probably as well as anyone else here. We chatted quite a bit on a variety of topics from diving to moderation issues, to personal things. I met her when she was in the U.S. and I got to spend several hours getting to know the person behind the keyboard. It really pains and angers me to think that she put herself in this position, but it's my belief that the majority of the separation issue lay with her, not her buddies.

I sure don't know if her and my wandering ways were the same. I never had the pleasure of meeting or diving with Quero. I don't see how that is relevant to my lamenting (that’s what bemoaning means) that her buddy wasn't there with her when she needed one. As I usually do in my posts I contrasted that with my experience which I thought in this case it would have been good had it happened to Quero on that dive. A remora buddy that is. Only in my response to Progen did I overstate her buddy’s responsibility to her and that was an attempt to make it clear to Progen that I was not disrespecting Quero. The $hit storm happened after that.

Now if one wants to blame Quero for the buddy separation during this dive I think there is plenty of evidence that could be a fact in this case. A four year old in a candy store was the way she was described I think I read. I never tried to lose a buddy, maybe she did??? She did say something about being crowded or something to that effect. Maybe she took off when she nobody was looking???

All that said I will finish with this: If I was diving with someone with new gear that they were still tweaking, in a new to them environment, with a wing that by looking at looks too small for the job, without redundant gas and a bubble that big in the suit and air in the wing. I’d be a remora buddy for the day. I’ve done it in the past for less reason and I’ll do it again if I see the need for it. I’m not the best buddy in the world especially if I’m diving with other experienced divers but I’ve never lost a buddy sometimes due to me, sometimes due to luck. At too high of a price Quero has instilled in me a fresh determination to be a better buddy. I hope I’m not alone in that determination.
 
...//... Could they have spent every second with their eyes on her, sure. ...//... It really pains and angers me to think that she put herself in this position, but it's my belief that the majority of the separation issue lay with her, not her buddies.

I need to be most careful with this post as I am already on serious notice in this thread. This must be a truly historic thread as, contrary to all past experience, there is only one side to this story.

Marcia was neither a dive professional nor an experienced diver on those dives. Such should have been evident to the most casual of observers standing on the beach. She was a vacation rookie to these conditions. Her sole mission was to photograph those elusive leafy sea dragons. (Here is where somebody remembers to note that she didn't know what she didn't know.)

All I know is that had she vacationed here in the NE Atlantic to photograph our elusive quahogs, I'd gladly have given up a week's worth of dives to allow her to follow her passion...
 
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