Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[AfterDark]

I understand that the general consensus is that she was a good diver. I also understand that she was having a lot of trouble with her dry suit.


In the mid 70's I was a young teenager and would absolutely freeze when diving 40 degree water in NJ. So I saved all my dishwashing money and bought a unisuit (neoprene dry suit). I was VERY careful with it. I read the entire manual (5-6 pages) a few times, the guy in the shop who sold it, told me to not let the boots fill with air and off I went to a quarry to test it out. I probably was solo, but I don't know.

I was thin and needed 40 lbs of lead. This was before power inflators were common and I had a horse collar BC, but this could not be used with the suit, so I had no BC. I thought it incredibly easy to just press a button and have air added, much easier than blowing up a BC orally. I was nervous with 40 lbs of lead hanging on a belt, but I found it easy to dive with. No lessons, no troubles, no issues other than the amount of lead precluded me from shore diving in big seas. Soon I was diving it solo in the ocean.

So, I am at a loss to understand how an extremely experienced diver would have continuing trouble with a dry suit. Maybe it is management of air in the BC AND the suit that is hard- something I didn't have to contend with? I never used a dry suit with a BC. Why does it take days to figure out?

As for the accident, people have been somewhat ambiguous about how deep it was when they descended, how far from shore it was (in feet) etc. I for one, would think nothing of a diver descending with 750 psi to the bottom in 12 feet and attempting to swim in 150 yards.

I tried to read the thread, but important basic facts are missing.

depth and distance from shore? (rather than shallow and close)
What type of weight system was she using?
Did she have a BP/W and a crotch strap over a weightbelt that would complicate ditching lead (as compared to a typical recreational BC)?

Why would an extremely experienced diver (repeatedly over the course of a few day) use a BC that would not have enough lift to hold them at the surface-this seems harder to explain than a failure to ditch lead in an emergency.

That is the same 1st dry suit experience I had except I was diving MA / RI. Dry suit diving just isn't that complicated especially for an experienced and accomplished diver. I don't have the unsuit anymore but I still have the manual.

 

[Diver0001]

Why won't people entertain the simple thought that as she descended for the final leg to the shore, she may have had a medical event that prevented her from ditching the weights to save herself. To the best of my knowledge and experience, once a second stage is expelled from the mouth it usually freeflows or maybe she came to rest on her occy causing that to freeflow. Couple that with an inaccurate SPG and that 50 bar suddenly vanishes in no time.

In fact, this was one of the first things many of us were thinking. The autopsy didn't support it.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I was never taught to ditch weights. I was taught to unbuckle, remove and or adjust and re- buckle the belt underwater. As to integrated weights, I was always under the impression that they were meant to be offloaded to facillitate easier boarding of the dive vessel after the dive or to ditch in a surface emergency but never while at depth unless you wish to spend some serious time in a chamber.

Actually, a common element in quite a few accidents is that the diver didn't jettison weights in circumstances when it clearly would have helped. The fact that you can't remember it ever coming up in your course may have to do with how it's presented. Buoyant ascents are discussed, establishing positive buoyancy on the surface is discussed, and ditching weights on the surface in the event of an emergency is discussed as well as skills to remove and replace the weights both under water and on the surface.

The skills are taught, but knowing the skill and thinking to do it before it's too late seem to be two very different things. There's no doubt in my mind that Marcia would have been able to ditch at least enough weight to stay on the surface if she had thought to do so..... the big question that comes up over and over again in these kinds of accidents is what, on earth, causes people to "forget" about this option or think about it too late.

R..

 

[Progen]

... I would not like to have been her buddy today after what happened.

1. You won't have the chance for obvious reasons.

2. Have some respect for a well loved person who had obviously paid greatly for a mistake which until now might or might not have been hers.

 

[AfterDark]

1. You won't have the chance for obvious reasons.

2. Have some respect for a well loved person who had obviously paid greatly for a mistake which until now might or might not have been hers.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Disrespect Qureo? How by pointing out her buddy didn't follow her around like he should have? I would not like to be her (that) buddy today because I would be blaming myself for her death because as her buddy I wasn't there when she needed me because I let her slip away from me. How is that disrespect?

 

[gypsyjim]

The following are some pictures of Marcia over her last 3 dives.

1) The first picture shows a side on view. On this picture you can see that she has some unditchable weight, which I would estimate at 4-6kg in total. You can also see on this picture that she is using the drysuit for buoyancy during this dive.

View attachment 168775

2) next dive; This picture I've included to give people a context to understand conditions and perhaps get a better understanding of the buddy separation.

View attachment 168776

3) last dive; the first picture again shows conditions during that dive and shows a good view on her trim and buoyancy. The last picture shows another view of the rig and shows that by this point the bubble has moved from the suit to the wing, indicating that she was experimenting during the last three dives with where to put the air.

View attachment 168777View attachment 168778

R..

I was trying to study that first image yesterday. To me it appears to show that she had cam band pockets on her tank that carried what look like @5# each. That could mean that at least 10# of her weight was not ditch-able. Image is a bit dark to really see well what else her weight rig may have consisted of. Your last image does appear to show a pretty small wing, because even inflated it does not cover the 80cf steel tank.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I was never taught to ditch weights. I was taught to unbuckle, remove and or adjust and re- buckle the belt underwater. As to integrated weights, I was always under the impression that they were meant to be offloaded to facillitate easier boarding of the dive vessel after the dive or to ditch in a surface emergency but never while at depth unless you wish to spend some serious time in a chamber.

I have never before this post considered the possibility that a student might misunderstand the weight removal exercise, just because they were not told to drop the weight belt after removing it. Learning and practicing the removal of a diver's removable weights is an exercise intended to teach a student how they can easily drop the weights to improve their buoyancy at the surface in an emergency.

I never stopped to consider that because, in the name of convenience the students were not told to drop their weights during this exercise, that they might not realize what this exercise was intended to be teaching them.

Rather than actually drop the weights, which would then required diving without weights to retrieve them (which we do have to do during this exercise in a Rescue class) the students simply hold onto those weights, and then learn to reinstall them.

Learning how to go about "readjusting" a diver's weights was not the lesson intended when doing this exercise.

That last part I highlighted in bold, because in this is you are correct. You do not ditch your weights until you are at the surface. We are not talking of Marcia dropping weights at depth, but while on the surface, trying to remain buoyant in whatever emergency may have occurred.

 

[Jax]

In fact, this was one of the first things many of us were thinking. The autopsy didn't support it.

R..

The autopsy is out?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That doesn't explain her buddy actions. As I posted I've had buddies that just will not me do that, they stuck to my right side like a remora. I'd be distracted taking pics moving around and there'd they'd be. I would not like to have been her buddy today after what happened.

These comments surprise me. It takes two to make a buddy team. How are we to judge if the buddy was the cause of the separation, Quero was the cause or it was mutually agreed upon by a very casual attitude toward the buddy system?

In any case, a competent, professional diver who becomes separated from her buddy, SHOULD be able to ascend 20 feet and make it to the surface without a problem, should she choose to do so, rather than just say: "I'll swim the short distance to shore on the bottom alone - because hey-I'm on vacation, I'm NOT working and these people can swim with each other the short distance to shore without my babysitting them".


In any case, from the info. I have read, I can hardly place blame on a buddy.

 

[Diver0001]

That doesn't explain her buddy actions. As I posted I've had buddies that just will not me do that, they stuck to my right side like a remora. I'd be distracted taking pics moving around and there'd they'd be. I would not like to have been her buddy today after what happened.

It's easy to forget that a buddy can only do so much. If reports are accurate, which I believe they are, then Marcia had a bad habit of swimming off which puts the buddy in the position of having to be a babysitter as much as a buddy.

Keeping buddy contact is a responsibility of both buddies and in this case it seems pretty clear to me from what I know that Marcia didn't (as a matter of habit) didn't keep very good contact with her buddies. It's easy to blame the buddy but as John mentioned before they had asked her several times to stick close and she chose not to.

I'm not saying this to lay blame, and I hope that others will avoid doing the same, but it is relevant to this accident because I believe if she had not developed this habit of drifting away that the accident may not have happened. It's not relevant only to this accident but buddy separation is a common element in accidents.

As a community we're pretty accepting of a vast spectrum of approaches to the "buddy system" and I don't think it's fair after an accident like this to assume that the buddy wasn't doing their job. Buddy separations are seldom so cut and dry.

R..

 

[dumpsterDiver]

After having read 30 pages on this topic, we agree that Marcia was an experienced diver and very likely mastered her buoyancy as she did surface after each dive and even had a conversation with the other divers on her last dive.

Why won't people entertain the simple thought that as she descended for the final leg to the shore, she may have had a medical event that prevented her from ditching the weights to save herself. To the best of my knowledge and experience, once a second stage is expelled from the mouth it usually freeflows or maybe she came to rest on her occy causing that to freeflow. Couple that with an inaccurate SPG and that 50 bar suddenly vanishes in no time.


I don't know about the rest of the world, but I was never taught to ditch weights. I was taught to unbuckle, remove and or adjust and re- buckle the belt underwater. As to integrated weights, I was always under the impression that they were meant to be offloaded to facillitate easier boarding of the dive vessel after the dive or to ditch in a surface emergency but never while at depth unless you wish to spend some serious time in a chamber.

Incredible what dive training has become. I think we can agree that she was unlikely to get bent from a buoyant ascent from 10 or 20 feet. Even if she went to the chamber she would be on her way to recovery by now.

In any case, if this accident does not make you re-evaluate your thought process about ditching lead while trapped on the bottom with a full wing and little or no air, no amount of additional training will probably help.

 

[Diver0001]

The autopsy is out?

The initial examination didn't reveal any medical issues but there are still some tests being done so there is nothing "officially" out yet.

R..