Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Jax]

All this buddy posting. I got the crap kicked outa me for asking where her buddy was 50 pages ago now it's ok to ask? Where was her buddy?

Nah, you got the crap kicked out of you because you insisted her buddy was responsible for her.

 

[ScubaPink]

Grateful Diver- thank you for your feedback. My final thoughts on my own point of view regarding this accident are as follows:

"I understand well what diving alone means ... I've done more solo dives in the past three months than you've done dives in your lifetime, if your profile is accurate"-

You understand it is riskier to dive solo.

"There are some dive ops who will not allow you to dive off their boat, or their resort, while solo ... and that's a business decision.."

--because it is a potential liability for them as it is a bigger risk to dive solo.

" Which is also often the case when two poorly trained dive buddies dive together and get separated. Now they're effectively diving solo ... which neither one of them is either physically or mentally prepared for.

" She wasn't poorly trained nor technically diving solo but she did die alone.

" But that is NOT all you said. You stated in absolute terms that diving without a buddy is what killed her. It's an ignorant statement, because people way more knowledgeable than you can't say for certain what the cause of death was."

- But then you say .....

"I don't disagree that having a buddy there would probably have prevented her death.."

AND THAT IS ALL I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY. FOR THIS INCIDENT, HAVING A BUDDY THERE IN ALL LIKELIHOOD WOULD HAVE PREVENTED HER DEATH.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

You understand it is riskier to dive solo.

You feel it's riskier to dive solo, but it's clear you have not applied any measure of rigorous thought to the matter such that you could call your impressions knowledge or understanding. Diving solo has certain inherent risks that buddy diving does not; buddy diving has certain inherent risks that solo diving does not. Whether one is, on balance, riskier than the other as an absolute matter is not as simple a question as you feel it is.

Just by way of brief example: buddy diving carries with it an inherent risk of separation, no matter how well two divers may try to adhere to eachother. Thus there is always the risk that one will suffer a failure during such a separation and be unprepared to manage it alone, which risk is simply not present when diving solo and self-reliant.

You seem to think Quero and/or her buddy somehow being better at buddy diving would have "in all likelihood" prevented her death. Maybe so, but failing to properly prepare oneself to mitigate and handle situations in a self-reliant manner is part and parcel of buddy diving. Had she been diving in a proper solo manner, in all likelihood she would have prevented her own death. If this fatality condemns any approach to diving, it's relying on a buddy for anything rather than diving solo.

 

[Jax]

In diving, there are certain buddy protocols we were all taught. They are put in place for the safety of both divers. To my knowledge there is no number of logged dive requirements to then be able to take a course of solo diving. It is not recommended and in fact it is expressly forbidden. It goes against the rules. At this point, some people choose to go it on their own. They do break the rules. They feel confident in their skills and take additional precautions to minimize the risk of solo diving. However, it is a risk and it goes against the rules. Rules that were written to best ensure a safe dive.

If 0-24 count divers refrained from delivering sermons, I think we'd all be a little better off. TYIA.

The young'un needs to learn.

In diving, there are certain buddy protocols we were all taught.

Why, yes. When we all first learned, and were baby divers, we had strict rules.

They are put in place for the safety of both divers.

For baby divers, yes.

To my knowledge there is no number of logged dive requirements to then be able to take a course of solo diving.

Sigh. This has been cited several times. SDI requires 100. I don't know what PADI's Self Reliant diver requires.

It is not recommended and in fact it is expressly forbidden.

By whom?!?!? Your instructor? Please remember, that as a new diver, you should not be reaching out of the box, yet.

It goes against the rules.

Wow, you're really rules-based, aren't you? Are you ready to live in a world where an awful lot of people bend and break rules by whim?

At this point, some people choose to go it on their own.

Yes, and frankly, it is no one's business but their own.

They feel confident in their skills and take additional precautions to minimize the risk of solo diving.

Yes . . . and not just precautions. Many take training and mentorship to arrive at that point.

However, it is a risk and it goes against the rules.

Wow, there you go again. Life is full of risks, sunshine, and as you grow and learn, you will learn to analyze risk and make [hopefully] appropriate decisions.

Rules that were written to best ensure a safe dive.

Lord Almightly . . .NOTHING, and NO ONE ensures a safe dive. All dives have an element of risk. Rules don't do squat, and Murphy doesn't follow them.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, I wouldn't want to dive with someone like you. You are so narrow-minded and focused on rules, I expect you would panic when something happened that is not according to your "rules".

Thinking divers survive. Blindly following rules makes YOU dangerous. IMO.

 

[beaverdivers]

How much time passed between the last picture posted & the final decent?

What depth was the body of the victim found? How close was it to where the final decent was made? Was it closer to the exit point than where the group made their final decent?

Is there any chance of viewing the pictures Quero took? Did she take any pictures after the final decent ( may not be possible to determine )?

How many dives had she made on this specific site? What were the bottom times of these dives?

 

[Jim-SAR]

Someone is going to have to start a new thread just to let us know when the OFFICIAL results are posted from the autopsy or investigation.

I've been reading from post number 1, and it's getting old hearing the same speculative discussions over and over again.



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[chillyinCanada]

I don't have a clue if being in a cohesive properly functioning buddy team would have saved her life and I'm not going to say "probably", as some others have said. One of my thoughts on this is only that if she'd been in said "buddy team", her body would have been found sooner.

I also don't necessarily agree with those that are saying Marcia should have known she was already in trouble. It is my OPINION, that had she felt the LEAST bit of anxiety (for lack of a better word), she'd have heeded her fellow divers when they asked her to get closer. I feel Marcia had no sense of concern, not even a niggling.

 

[DaleC]

I disagree with assuming a buddy team would have made a difference..

Ideally it may have but if we are being realistic about how many buddy teams operate I'm not sure the outcome would have been different. And here again I have to say I do not pretend to know what exactly happened in Quero's case.

I am assuming reasonable vis for the dive which would have many buddy teams 20 or more feet apart. Both would be taking pictures so somewhat distracted - definitely not spending every moment watching their buddy. It's the end of the dive, in ten feet of water, even less attention being paid. Basically in the goof off zone doing safety stops. It sounds like what ever happened to Quero happened quickly (she didn't ditch rig, weights or close the DS valve). So what would the average buddy see? I think they would most likely see someone sitting on the bottom in one spot and assume they were shooting a weedy seadragon.

A good photographic buddy team (unless really disciplined) requires someone to be in charge of taking pictures and someone in charge of maintaining contact. For me this means putting myself in the photographers line of vision so that they only need look up to see where I am while I watch them.

I'm not saying good buddy skills don't exist, but I am realistic that destination divers, who spend a lot for that once in a lifetime chance to take pictures, are going to spend most of their dive watching another diver. It would appear Quero didn't.

 

[Farback]

Young lady, you should calm down and perhaps read between the lines of what the many experienced, long term divers are saying here. We were all trained with the 'buddy system' and many of us have gone through training(rescue) or years of experience to arrive at certain realities.

Experienced, self-reliant divers look after themselves. They go equipped and with the mental mindset that they, and they alone, are responsible for their save return from a dive. If it is within their capability, strength, experience, and mental self control in an emergency to rescue their 'dive buddy', it might just work out like the books say.

Most of my non body recovery diving these days is resort diving. I get to know the dive masters I'm diving with, and am generally assigned as a non- buddy diver trailing the group. I am perfectly comfortable with this. I dive water and smoke regularly, and depend on nobody to pull my ass out. I've been a fire fighter for 23 years BTW. I carry a redundant air supply, harness, two cutting tools, etc. I tend to watch the whole group I dive with for signs of distress. It's the Fire Chief/ grandpa in me. On more than one occasion I've intervened before the DM saw an issue.

My my point is, when the schit hits the fan, you need to be responsible for yourself. You can't expect someone with your own level of experience, or even an instructor or DM is going to lay their life on the line for you. You are truly alone in these situations, and must have the mindset to save yourself.

clearly not the sunshine PADI opinion,

Fire Chief Kirk

 

[clownfishsydney]

How much time passed between the last picture posted & the final decent? Not sure but based on the depth that the photo was taken and knowing where they surfaced, I would guess at a minimum 20 minutes

What depth was the body of the victim found? As mentioned before, the recovery diver's computer shows he went to 2.2 metres, so she was perhaps in 2.5 to 3 metres. How close was it to where the final decent was made? I do not know this. Was it closer to the exit point than where the group made their final decent? I do not know this.

Is there any chance of viewing the pictures Quero took? Police will have camera. Did she take any pictures after the final decent ( may not be possible to determine )? If camera was downloaded it should be able to be ascertained.

How many dives had she made on this specific site? Zero What were the bottom times of these dives? See before

Answers to the questions above in red.