New PADI OW Diver

[Dale Baker]

Just finished the PADI OW certs today, final written exam on Wednesday. Half Moon Bay is real salty. My biggest issue appears to be weight control. I weigh in a at 240 and was using a soft weight belt with 16 lbs plus 4lbs more in each pocket of the BCD (non integrated). I felt like I was (1) on my face all the time, (2) could not streamline, and (3) stay vertical in one place at the surface. I felt the constant need to spin clockwise.

Both the instructors and DMs said I should go with an integrated BCD which should solve the problem. I have not bought any gear yet besides the basics, but I am hooked for sure.

Any advise from the pros would be welcome.

Happiness is a full tank,

Dale

 

[Glenn08]

Contrary to most of the replies you will probably get, I would say keep the weight belt and add ankle weights. My preference is that my rig and I each be close to neutrally buoyant, even if we are rarely separated.

 

[Coconut Divers]

Welcome to Scubaboard,

i agree with Glenn first try something else like ankle weights or simply move the tank bring it low !!! First dive get experience and then buy what you like !!!

 

[tracydr]

Generally, you don't rearrange your weights based on how your trim is on the surface of the water. If you're doing a face plant on the surface, you may want to check and see if the BC is capable of actually floating the full amount of negative weight that you're expecting it to float. Many tropical wings ( the air holding part of the BC), don't have more than 20 lbs of capacity, sometimes less because they don't fully inflate.
Once you establish that your wing has enough capacity, you need to decide if this is a wing that you even want. There are several types of BCs. There is back inflate, jacket, backplate/ wing/ harness. The back inflate and jacket can come integrated or non-integrated.
With the amount of weight that you seem to require, you may want to look at a steel backplate with wing and harness. This helps in a few ways. The steel backplate gets some of the weight off the weight belt and onto the back. The BC is less buoyant than most tropical BCs, so you can usually take off a few pounds simply because you don't have to sink cushy padding. And, you can also buy a weighted "STA" or a steel plate that bolts onto the backplate, depending on which brand of backplate that you purchase, which will get even more weight off the hips. Too much weight on the hips or in the integrated weight pockets tends to make you leg-heavy which makes it hard to be in a nice, horizontal position in the water. It can also cause you to have low back pain on long dives, something many people, especially those who are less than thin, tend to have problems with.
The other two BCs have their advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the back inflate to the jacket because when the jacket is fully inflated it will squeeze around your chest and make it harder to breathe. However, the back inflate ( and somewhat the BP/wing) has a tendency to push you forward on the surface. I've never noticed this but I think it may be more noticeable if you have all the weight on your hips pulling you down onto your face. Don't know, I'm usually able to comfortably float on my back on the surface so I can't help you with that.
Another thing that may help a little is heavy fins. When you're wearing a heavy exposure suit you're quite positive in the legs so its nice to have heavier fins to counteract this. Something like a Jet fin with spring straps will work well.
Finally, try steel tanks instead of aluminum. This can help by giving you a slightly negative tank instead of a positive tank requiring even more weight to stay down.
Congratulations and welcome to Scuba Board!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you are having that kind of trouble at the surface it's more than likely you are way over weighted and needing to put too much air in the BC. How was your weight check done? And how many times did you yourself do it in the pool?
Your BC is not the problem. Your instructors and DM's are from the sounds of it.
What exactly did they say an integrated BC would bring to the table as far as relief from your issues?

One other point, a back inflate or BPW will not push you forward if your weighting is correct and distributed properly. Problem is that there are too few instructors who know how to accomplish proper weighting and weight distribution. And some just choose not to as it's easier to plant people on the bottom and sell them dubious equipment solutions to what are actually skills and training issues.

 

[NAM001]

DONT JUMP IN AND START BUYING GEAR. You have come here and that is a good start. You need to get gear that works for you not to remove gear from the lds shelves.

Next there are 2 aaspects of problems you are having 1.. weighting 2. trim. 2 seperate things but are linked together. Weighting is the amount of weight that is required to kep you at a neutral bouyancy condition . this is the easiest of the 2 issues to correct. Trim on the other hand is the placement of that weight of that weight so that like a see saw it can remain is any position you put it in. Both sides weigh the same.

The first . Weighting. As you may know you need to weight yourself to be neutral when you are with a neer empth tank. this is when you are at 15-20' and say 4-500# of air. This is done to insure you dont go floating to the surface when you need to stay down. Divers and boat props do not mix. This will be done when you have no air in the bc or wing. Any air in it indicates you have too much weight and need to get rid of some. When this happens you will find that when you start the dive you will be heavy. this is from the weight in the full tank 8# per 100 cu ft. you should probably be about 2500/3000*8*.77 or 5# heavy. ????? well you are neut at 500 psi so the remainder of the tank 2500/3000 is weight, 8#/100 and the ttank is 77 cuft. so you have to inflate you bc about 5# wirth to comp for the air in the tank. That mystery is over. Next is trim. Try laying flat in the water adn start systomatically moving your weight to your light end of your body till you can lay flat in te water without using your finns or hands to stay stable. This will be moving your tank up and down ect. As already mentionedYou are heavy in the head. so move your weight towards your feet. This is a leverage issue a pound on te feet is = to 5# on the belt.the senter of your body should be the solarplex area.

It sounds like you are wearing a rether heavy wet suit to need 20# of lead or very salty water or a combination fo both. Given your feet light you have 2 courses. add lower weight or take off lower wet suit. If you are in warm water try a shortie wet suit or say a 3/2 or 2/1 suit. that will allow your feet to drop with out weight. This will also change the lead requirement for neutral bouyancy so you will have to do that part over again. You can move your tank down but you win still need to be able to reach your valves. Now comes the issue of jacket or bp/w. The bp can be worn low to move weight down while still having the tank high enough to operate your valve. Cant do this with a jacket. The longer the tank the more weight ballance you can move down with the valve in the same location. Also with a steel bp.w you can move your wing up to give more lift to your head end than the feet end. Cant do this with a jacket either. So using a bp worn low and the wing set High and long tank you should be ok with a variety of wet suits. Any small lightness in the feet then can be delt with by brand of fins. Make sure you get someone to evaluate your trim from a distance because you may think you are head down when you are not. This is a common thing as we are upright when we move about.

Hope this helps some. and btw think about a bp/w. The steel bp will take 6# off your hips. The bp relocates your weight so that all weights are centered on the center of all you lifts. ideally the mid back area, not the head or hips

 

[Dale Baker]

All you guys and gals rock. The BCDs we are using are full inflate jacket wings. Because I am new, I have to trust the DM. However, when he gave me a 3# sack to put in one pocket without a matching 3# for the other pocket, I began to understand who is really in charge of my safety and comfort.... ME.

---------- Post added September 23rd, 2013 at 02:30 PM ----------

We talked about ankle weights. My issue is staying deep. Every time I try and go forward, I go to the surface.

 

[Quero]

Dale, if you are heading for the surface every time you fin at depth, you don't need ankle weights or heavy fins or to push your tank down lower or even a different set of dive instructors. You just need to think a little about the physics of it.

If you fin and you head to the surface every time, chances are that you are angled with your legs lower than your head and shoulders so that the force of your finning sends you upwards rather than only forwards. This is essentially a problem of trim, and most often caused by improper weighting. When you've got too much weight on your belt, in your pockets, etc., you need to put extra air in your BC at depth to compensate for the weight (in order to get neutrally buoyant). The air in the BC lifts your upper body while at the same time all the weight you are carrying is dragging your hips down. So you end up at some angle rather than parallel to the surface of the water. We want to be parallel to the surface so that our fin kicks will push us forward.

At the end of the day, the diver him/herself is the only one who can make adjustments in trim. Instructors or buddies can tell you whether or not you're in trim, take a picture of you to show you or even grab you and put you in position, but really, you are the only one who can keep yourself in position. Getting your weighting right is the main key, and linked to that is getting the weight in the right place. For people who need to carry a lot of weight because of thick wetsuits, body type or whatever, a stainless steel backplate, or putting some of the weight in trim pockets or on the tank strap can help shift the weight off the hips. I suspect that your instructor's suggestion of a BC with integrated weight pockets is an attempt to get some of the weight off your hips and higher onto your rig. I sometimes actually attach weights onto my students' shoulder straps to achieve the correct balance.

 

[Dale Baker]

Dale, if you are heading for the surface every time you fin at depth, you don't need ankle weights or heavy fins or to push your tank down lower or even a different set of dive instructors. You just need to think a little about the physics of it.

If you fin and you head to the surface every time, chances are that you are angled with your legs lower than your head and shoulders so that the force of your finning sends you upwards rather than only forwards. This is essentially a problem of trim, and most often caused by improper weighting. When you've got too much weight on your belt, in your pockets, etc., you need to put extra air in your BC at depth to compensate for the weight (in order to get neutrally buoyant). The air in the BC lifts your upper body while at the same time all the weight you are carrying is dragging your hips down. So you end up at some angle rather than parallel to the surface of the water. We want to be parallel to the surface so that our fin kicks will push us forward.

At the end of the day, the diver him/herself is the only one who can make adjustments in trim. Instructors or buddies can tell you whether or not you're in trim, take a picture of you to show you or even grab you and put you in position, but really, you are the only one who can keep yourself in position. Getting your weighting right is the main key, and linked to that is getting the weight in the right place.

For people who need to carry a lot of weight because of thick wetsuits, body type or whatever, a stainless steel backplate, or putting some of the weight in trim pockets or on the tank strap can help shift the weight off the hips. I suspect that your instructor's suggestion of a BC with integrated weight pockets is an attempt to get some of the weight off your hips and higher onto your rig. I sometimes actually attach weights onto my students' shoulder straps to achieve the correct balance.

Thanks for the advise. The filming me at depth has been suggested as well. It appears that a backplate BCD and tank strap trim weights are in order if I decide to stay with it and buy my own gear. My legs and hips appear to be heavier than my chest and even trying to point down and swim to depth with empty lungs is difficult. Exhaling completely and only taking shallow breaths is the only thing that keeps me at depth and neutral. Once there, I can stay put unless I fin fast and/or take a deep breath. This constant effort takes away from the enjoyment of diving and the safety of my buddy watch. I am either trying to just keep down and keep pace but cannot seem to accomplish both.

---------- Post added September 24th, 2013 at 09:18 PM ----------

Thanks KWS. As with the others, it sounds like a BP/W is the key for my body style and built-in balance. I have only dived with the winged jacket BCD and outside of confined, in really.... really... salty water. My next dive is in few days and in less salty water but still with the same dive club gear.

I have since realized that tank placement is a part of the weight and balance equation. This is dependent on the reg hose, and that longer hoses mean a lower possible tank placement and vise versa. Given that I doubt I have dived twice with the same reg, the tank placement could be higher or lower on any given dive. I have had to raise tanks to the collar just to get the reg into my mouth on one dive, and had the tank on my heels with plenty of hose to spare on others. This, among all the other new diver variables could be why I am having such issues.

 

[Quero]

Before you go out an invest in new gear, try attaching trim weights to your shoulders. Below is a post that explains how to do it. To make it even easier, I've found that you can go to Walmart and buy Goody hairbands (the long ones, not the pony tail ones). Knot a little loop in one end (I like to do this where it's glued together); the knot will serve the same purpose as the double fisherman's knot in the explanation below.

Use 18 or 20 inches of 3/16" bungee tied in a Double Fisherman's knot. Longer for heavier weights and/or weaker hands. How to tie a Double Fisherman's Knot ==> Double Fishermans Knot - How to tie a Double Fisherman's

Thread the bungee through the slot. The Double Fisherman's Knot will not pass through. The best part of this, is that you can carry the bungeed weights on a double ender and you don't have to take anything off to attach it. You will expedite the time it takes to trim your students out properly since you can attach these weights on any tank, BC or weight strap without them having to take off a thing.

Pull the bungee under the strap and up through the other slot.

Pull the loop over the weight to secure it.

Pull the Double Fisherman's knot side over last. This will really stabilize the weight and hide the knot. It's a very stream lined and easy solution.