Feeling like a hypocrite...

[Doc]

With all the video cameras at canned Shark Dives- it's only a matter of time until that FOX "When Animals Attack" special airs against Shark Week.

Many, many Divemasters in paradise often surreptitiously feed fish if they lack skills to find interesting stuff.

On the other side of the coin, many of their divers have the ability to only see larger fish or schools of them, so it works both ways.

Everybody comes out for a Dolphin stranding, but getting hands to help on a cold shock Sea Turtle emergency is a tough recruitment. Threats to Sea Turtles | Sea Turtle, Inc

How do you all feel about killing Lionfish?

I think that Eco-warrior stance is the mark of an otherwise bored diver.

It's a waste of time. We have relatively little impact on the reef as divers.



The crap generated to support our presence at the Resort is however, huge.

 

[Kharon]

I would be putting the crawfish into a mesh bag so that I could use them for bait after I got dried off. As a kid, my Dad taught me how to find all sorts of bait and when & how to use them. For freshwater fishing: softshells, hellgramites, minnows, nightcrawlers, grubs, maggots, grasshoppers. For saltwater fishing: sandfleas, fiddler crabs, baitfish of several kinds. Never had a qualm. It's something humans have been doing for thousands of years. This political correctness stuff has me baffled. I don't torture animals and I want them to live as nice a life as possible - but nature is a tough taskmaster. I'd far rather be killed instantly than to be torn apart and eaten while still alive.

 

[DaleC]

If you need someone else to set your moral compass then you already have problems.
The question is whether you feel it is ok to directly cause the death of an animal for your entertainment. What's going on in that animals world is of no importance to the question - it's what's going on inside your mind; your intention. At that time, are you fulfilling a need or a whimsy.

 

[DiverGirl1972]

If you need someone else to set your moral compass then you already have problems.
The question is whether you feel it is ok to directly cause the death of an animal for your entertainment. What's going on in that animals world is of no importance to the question - it's what's going on inside your mind; your intention. At that time, are you fulfilling a need or a whimsy.

Gee, thanks for pointing out that people who come to SB to set their moral compasses have problems. Good thing that's not what I was doing. I was just wondering if this practice went on in other places and what other divers thought of it.

 

[DaleC]

Gee, thanks for pointing out that people who come to SB to set their moral compasses have problems. Good thing that's not what I was doing. I was just wondering if this practice went on in other places and what other divers thought of it.

I'm a big believer of the ethical treatment of animals and I don't condone baiting waters so that a dive is more entertaining. One of the reasons is because I don't think it's healthy for humans to interfere with the normal feeding habits of wild animals, marine or otherwise.

This weekend, I was at my favorite diving quarry and at the end of the dive, to amuse myself, I found myself turning rocks upside down, in search of crawfish to feed to the eagerly waiting bass. I guess I never really gave it much thought before, but this pretty much contradicts those convictions. I would never do this in the ocean, but somehow, I've justified it to myself that in the quarry, it's ok.

Am I overthinking this, or is it terrible that this is now a fairly common activity (not based upon scientific figures, just frequent observation)? I think it happens primarily on the "Student" side, but it's effects can be seen around other shallow areas - fish that beg worse than my dog does!

Does this type of practice happen elsewhere? Harmless safety stop fun or damaging the ecological balance?



I'm sorry. I read your OP as seeking justification for breaking your stated strongly held ethical convictions. Probably a failure in communication somewhere.

I get confused that way when someone who says they strongly believe in the ethical treatment of animals amuses them self by directly causing the death of animals and asks others whether they are over thinking things. I misunderstood that you did not understand yourself, the basis of your own ethical reasoning.

Also, just a heads up: Your question regarding ecological balance is also confusing. Are you asking whether it's harmless safety stop fun to cause the death of animals for amusement as long as you don't upset the ecology? I have an answer for that but I'm not sure it's the one you are seeking.

 

[DiverGirl1972]

Dude, chill out. Perhaps it was a communication failure on part...or perhaps, you are reading WAYYYY too much into my post. I had a thought during a safety stop and wondered what other people's experiences were with this activity and how they felt about it. Simple as that. This wasn't about moral compasses or not understanding myself. I understand myself just fine...it's you who clearly doesn't understand me and I will take whatever blame I should for that. Just trying to pass some time until my next dive. Gheesh.

 

[DaleC]

I'm pretty chill.
I just thought you were looking for something more than just passing time between dives, based on the language and context of the OP.
Carry on.

 

[chillyinCanada]

It's hard to recognize how chill you are DaleC, considering how you went for the jugular in your first post.

 

[CT-Rich]

A couple of things, as was pointed out by Dumpster, you make a environmental impact by just driving to the quarry. The Quarry is an ecosystem, hell, it was an ecosystem before it was a quarry. One thing that most forget is that we are part of the ecosystem. When you cat goes out in the yard and poops in the bushes and eats some crickets, it part of the ecosystem, same for when it eat a bird (native or invasive). Like it or not, intentional or not, we are participants in the ecosystem.

Yes some people get the warm and cuddlies for koalas and big game fish or manatees, but is that really all that bad when it mobilizes the protection of the ecosystem from run away exploitation? catch limits and hunting laws aren't there to ensure that all hunters get a fair chance to bag game, they are to ensure the continuation of game.

If the bass are becoming dependent on the divers for food (I think that is unlikely, they are simply exploiting a temporary advantage), does that have to be considered 100% bad? To protect a popular body of water for tourism, a community may create a buffer around the lake to prevent excessive leaching of lawn chemicals or maybe just to create positive family environment for camping. The effect of buffer zone is the same regardless.


Going to expensive faraway destinations may not be perfect, but if feeding that tame moray eel is preventing locals from dynamite fishing the reef and allowing 200 other eels to exist unmolested, is it 100% completely bad?

 

[shoredivr]

Then there is the invasive species issue. Zebra mussels and gobi fish are not native to the Great Lakes. They were introduced in the dumped ballast waters of freighters coming over from the Baltic Sea. In a short period of time, ecologically speaking, the mussels have turned the ecosystem of the Great Lake upside down. As filter feeders, they have increased the clarity of the water (yay for divers) yet clog up water intake pipes and completely encrust shipwrecks and beaches with dense mats of tiny razor sharp shells (boo for divers). The gobi fish eat everything in their path and have put a huge dent in the nativefish populations, devouring native fish species eggs.
On a safety stop, is it ethical to take a rock and pound on the zebra mussels so the gobies can eat them? Or is squashing the gobies desirable?

I put myself in the camp of ok to kill lionfish in the Atlantic/Caribbean.