How long should it take a liveaboard to fix their Nitrox?? (Dancer fleet)

[cephalopod2]

Just got a Jul 24 email that a liveaboard I booked months ago will not have any Nitrox for its Aug 6-16 and 18-25 Komodo trips.

This boat starts or ends in Bali every trip. I am very surprised that a Bali-based boat could take a month to fix its Nitrox membrane system. Bali is not Sorong - things can be couriered there relatively quickly and there are a large number of dive ops and liveaboards working from Bali with Nitrox systems. I would have thought there would be some local expertise to draw on.

I know some of you will understand what I mean when I say I never would have booked this liveaboard had I known in advance it would not have Nitrox. Indonesia is too far to come, there are too many strong liveaboards here, and Komodo profiles are too perfectly suited not to have Nitrox. I have dove Komodo itineraries on air and Nitrox and in my experience the Nitrox trips were much more enjoyable.

Short of installing an entirely new Nitrox system - which I would expect a boat to plan for well in advance given the life expectancy of these units - is it reasonable to take 4.5 weeks to fix a Nitrox problem?

-c

 

[tracydr]

Well, what a surprise. Another issue with the Agressor/Dancer fleet!

 

[kelemvor]

If you don't want to dive with them as a result, why not demand a refund? It sounds like they're telling you they can't provide what you signed up for - so you've got a legitimate beef. Take your money to a different liveaboard that offers what you want. If they won't give you a refund, contact your card issuer. Most banks/credit card companies will deal with the vendor for you if necessary (although there is usually a small sub $50 fee).


Otherwise, it's the ol' bait and switch.

 

[cephalopod2]

If you don't want to dive with them as a result, why not demand a refund? It sounds like they're telling you they can't provide what you signed up for - so you've got a legitimate beef. Take your money to a different liveaboard that offers what you want.

Realistically the problem this close to the trip (Aug 6) is that all the really good Komodo liveaboards are full. Even when I was booking there was very little space remaining on the other boats I was considering. This is high season in Komodo. We've got land-based diving booked before and international flights booked after, so it would have to be something that fit the original dates very closely.

Another problem with your suggestion - I booked with a trusted dive travel agent who cannot be blamed for the failings of the liveaboard.

I have only once contested a CC charge for a flight that was cancelled (and I never got the $ back). I am not sure the CC company would agree that the service is not being provided as contracted. Dancer will surely argue that Nitrox is an "extra" because it is an add-on, the same way that getting to the dive sites touted on the itinerary is effectively considered an "extra" in cases of bad weather, the boat breaking down, etc.

What I would really like to do is push Dancer to get their Nitrox problem fixed as quickly as humanly possible. I will of course be writing them but first I wanted to get a sense of what is realistic in terms of getting a Nitrox system fixed if a boat were doing its utmost to achieve this ASAP. Fixing Nitrox systems is not my area of expertise.

 

[kelemvor]

That's a tough situation. Maybe you could ask them to get a tank or two of O2 and blend nitrox on the trip for you?

A month to fix or replace the system seems kind of crazy to me. I'd bet they have back to back trips booked on the boat and don't want to sit in port long enough to get this repair done.

 

[nimoh]

assuming the compressor is still pumping air, perhaps they could take a bank of a few 300ft3 bottles of EAN40 instead of the membrane and that should be enough to make EAN32 for all the divers for a week, depending on the number of divers, of course.

Could also take a few oxygen bottles, but that would require O2 clean tanks and valves.

I have only ever seen one membrane system, and it took up about the same space as a 4x300ft3 bank. But, perhaps there are smaller systems used in boats that I am not aware of.

 

[cephalopod2]

That's a tough situation. Maybe you could ask them to get a tank or two of O2 and blend nitrox on the trip for you?

A good idea. I was actually thinking about this earlier. My question is whether anyone on board would be trained to do the mixing. I would guess only the cruise director might have the training. The Indo DMs I would guess do not from my previous experience on this boat (I have not dove with this CD). Most of the Indonesian engineering crew while locally qualified may not have formal training. Does one need a gas blending certification or some such thing to be able to mix from O2?

In all of this I think the major issue is the boat's willingness to fix the problem. I was actually on a liveaboard with broken Nitrox in Raja in March. The boat wasn't full so I asked them to run me to a nearby land-based resort to buy 4 Nitrox fills as there were tanks that weren't being used. Of course that resort also had a broken Nitrox system but it would have been a good solution had the land-based resort not also had broken Nitrox.

This Aug 6 trip the entire boat is full (16 divers IIRC). I may not be the only one who really wants Nitrox. I guess another idea would be trying to connect with others on the boat to lobby as a group. Again, I can see the US office rejecting the O2 suggestion on the grounds it would be too many tanks to mix. There are boats that do blend Nitrox from pure O2 (I know the Okeanos Aggressor did) -- the key issue again is will.

A month to fix or replace the system seems kind of crazy to me. I'd bet they have back to back trips booked on the boat and don't want to sit in port long enough to get this repair done.

They are in port in Bali Aug 4-6 and in port in Labuan Bajo (far less infrastructure) Aug 14-16. In port Jul 26-28 likely as well, but in Labuan Bajo. That seems like lots of working time to me but I am not a membrane system engineer.

 

[kelemvor]

As we say in the southern US; "The squeaky wheel gets a greasin." Let them know just how unhappy you are. If you can get in touch with the other divers, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to group lobby as you mentioned.

 

[cephalopod2]

perhaps they could take a bank of a few 300ft3 bottles of EAN40 instead of the membrane and that should be enough to make EAN32 for all the divers for a week, depending on the number of divers, of course.

Could also take a few oxygen bottles, but that would require O2 clean tanks and valves.

I have only ever seen one membrane system, and it took up about the same space as a 4x300ft3 bank. But, perhaps there are smaller systems used in boats that I am not aware of.

nimoh this is a fantastic proposal - thank you so much for suggesting it. I think it could solve the problem of there not being adequate equipment or trained staff on board to deal with pure 02.

It sounds like all they would need are the 300ft3 tanks and the space to store them. Would the 300ft3 tanks have to be hooked up to the membrane system or could tanks be mixed without them being hooked up?

 

[nimoh]

nimoh this is a fantastic proposal - thank you so much for suggesting it. I think it could solve the problem of there not being adequate equipment or trained staff on board to deal with pure 02.

It sounds like all they would need are the 300ft3 tanks and the space to store them. Would the 300ft3 tanks have to be hooked up to the membrane system or could tanks be mixed without them being hooked up?

the membrane wouldn't be used at all, you would still be using partial pressure filling, but with EAN40 instead of pure O2, and would still require mixing experience.

The advantages of using EAN40 over O2 are that you wouldn't incur the dangers of handling pure O2, you wouldn't require and special permits to transport the O2 bottles (if any), and the diving cylinders wouldn't need to be O2 clean.

The disadvantages are that you would need to carry more EAN40 than O2 (taking up more boat space) since you will go through EAN40 faster when partial pressure blending EAN32.


I was suggesting it because, assuming they are removing the membrane system for repair, it seems that would free up some floor space for a bank...or maybe not, just an idea.