Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[Laurie S.]

In the past, the Bonaire orientation dives were done w/ a DM in the water.

However my recent experiences, at Captain Don's and Buddy Dive, have been that the divers were justed directed to do an orientation dive.

We had a group so we assisted in the " Check Out Dive ". I believe having the DM involved was a better system. Please realize the primary reason for the orientation dive was mainly to protect Bonaire's reefs, not the divers. Yet if done properly, both the divers and the reef benefited.

I think most dive resorts offer ( require ) a check-out dive. Personally, I feel it is an excellent idea.

I know WAKATOBI requires a check-out dive to protect their pristine reefs and to qualify the diver.

When we were at Bonaire last year on a cruise we dove at Captain Don's and had no checkout whatsoever. I was expecting it and warned my fiance (he's an MSDT with 39 years experience) that he probably would have to do a checkout dive, but they simply asked for our cards and said go have fun. We did! We plan on going back and spending a week or so at Captain Don's.

 

[peterbj7]

Another perspective on the general issue (not the current accident which is most regrettable).

A few years back four of us presented at a major well known Cozumel dive centre wanting two morning dives and a night dive the same day. We only had one day as we were passing through. All of us were dive professionals with at least 2000 dives each, and everyone was at least a DM. We were sent on a dive which I can only describe as ****ty, with another after it that wasn't much better. Since the diving was so awful we decided to forego the night dive and were given no refund. When criticising the dives afterwards to the shop manager, I referred to the diving we were all accustomed to further down the reef in Belize, and said I had no idea the diving at Cozumel was so poor. We were then told they always put new divers on such dives to assess their competence. When I objected I was told they made no exceptions. I pointed out my diving experience, my qualifications, my ownership of a tech dive centre, all to no avail. I also pointed out the evident inexperience of our "assessor", which was not well received. If the phrase "disinterested arrogance" is ever to be used it applied to that dive operation, and I have never been back. When asked I advise my diving guests to steer clear of that operation.

I have a lot of sympathy for Dumpster's viewpoint.


edit - the ****ty above is not what I posted. For some reason a good old Anglo-Saxon word is regarded as unacceptable here.

 

[TSandM]

I just wanted to add my experience in Coz, which was that we were completely unaware that we were doing a "checkout dive" on the first day. In fact, if my memory serves me right, we did Paradise Reef, which we all enjoyed so much we actually requested to go back there later in the week. We found a ton of interesting critters, and since we were new to Coz, everything was new and fun to us. If that was Aldora checking us out, more power to them. I'd have a problem paying to go out on a boat to sit in the sand and clear my mask, but that is not at all what we did . . .

 

[old gaffer]

A couple of years ago I bought a new computer which was my first air integrated and much different than what I had been using. I read the manual and toyed with it a bit before leaving for coz. First day of diving I was having a bit of trouble setting it up for nitrox due to not being familiar with it yet (my bad). And could see that some of the others onboard were a bit annoyed with me and were judging me as a total newbie. Dives were good but the next day I was picked up by a different dive boat and everyone on that boat had been newly certified. At the surface interval we docked next to the boat I had been on the day before and all the same folks were on it except for me. I was ticked off as I was certain that they complained about me so I was moved. Funny thing was I had a ball with the newly certified diverss they were in awe of there first ocean dives in Cozumel and though I only had bout 75 dives in Cozumel they were all asking me about the other reefs we had not done yet. My SAC rates were better so i was always the last one back on the boat. Also was where I needed to be when one of the new divers was not watching his air gauge and ran out of air. He grabbed me by the arm waving his pressure gauge with the other and I calmly gave him my octo and patted him on the back. Ended up being one of the best dive trips I have ever done. Tom

 

[Mike]

In regard to liking or disliking a dive operations business model, the great thing about Cozumel is there is a dive operator for every taste!

I'm pretty selfish, I book dives to dive, to maximize my bottom time and wring every bit out of a destination that it has to offer. Being who I am, I personally hate being on boats with newbies. Yes we were all one at one time, but I'm not anymore and as I said, I'm selfish. I have zero desire to instruct or teach I'm there for my own personal reasons of fullfilment and self-gratification. I gladly accept a couple of okay dives to start my dive vacation for the trade off of what is to come, knowing that for the rest of my diving I'm going to be able to dive like a mad-man without having another newbie or ****ty diver suck his tank dry and cut my dives short, I'm going to get to the advanced sites and so on. It's a hell of a trade off I gladly accept with glee and am so happy a dive operation like that exists. I only wish he would franchise it all over the Caribbean so I could enjoy that experience everywhere I go.

 

[vondo]

Dear Dumpster Diver,

In 20 years here, the very worst diver I have ever been in the water with had 250 logged dives. The most scary personal incident for me was with the son of a Dive Shop owner from Monterey CA who had lots of dives in the cold dark waters of the Pacific. A famous line from Jack Nicholson was '"Rule #2 is that with age, never trust a fart". The same holds true for log books.

But truly, after the first dive in which we still make very interesting, we have our divers on appropriate boats at appropriate dive sites. I think our reputation may speak for itself.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

---------- Post added January 16th, 2013 at 07:54 AM ----------

Dear Gordon,

I agree completely. Every diver dead or lost is immediately in the local papers and the harbor master must provide a report, etc. IT is all very formal and legally required. IMO it would be impossible for a death in Cozumel, of any sort to go un reported. However, getting bent raises no eyebrows.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

I've been diving with Aldora twice. And since the two occurrences were four years apart and the 2nd time involved other "new to Aldora" divers, I'm sure I was evaluated both times. At no time did I ever notice I was being evaluated or tested. Nor were the first dives some lame "check-out" dive in a sandy bay. And having like-experienced and SAC divers grouped together on subsequent days means everyone's enjoyment is maximized. This all goes on behind the scenes and as a customer, you never notice it. Unless perhaps you are really on the lookout for it.

DumpsterDiver, you'd do well to reconsider your position should you ever be in Cozumel. Most everyone who's been diving with Aldora can't say enough good things about them.

 

[Christi]

You failed to answer my question, what value are the certifications and log book if they are meaningless? Does paying for an extra private divemaster somehow validate those certifications and log book? You indicated that if a customer pays extra, then they can dive where they want as long as they pay for the babbysitting DM. Is that all it takes? No check out dive at all.. just an extra $50-60 ?????

That is not at all what he said! AND a babysitting DM is there to assist NEW divers that need extra help - not to make money for the dive shop and not to give the diver carte blanche of dive sites, and not for ALL divers - only those that are new! As a paying diver, wouldn't you appreciate not having the dive guide's attention taken away from the other paying divers because he is busy taking care of a new, scared or vry rusty inexperienced diver?

BTW - the extra $50 - $60 is NOT a profit center for dive shops here - it actually costs the shop a paying space because we are regulated on how many passengers and crew we are allowed on any given boat. If a boat has 6 permits - then we are only allowed 6 divers + 2 crew - an extra crew member, the private DM actually takes a spot from a paying diver. The fee only covers the DM's salary and tanks for the day!

 

[ggunn]

What is the value of certifications and log books if they are utterly disregarded?

The value of a certification is to train you so that you don't kill yourself by doing something stupid in the water. The value of a logbook is so that you can learn from your experiences and look back fondly on that dive where you saw the eagle ray, or whatever. Neither is proof to someone else that you are ready to handle Barracuda or Maracaibo. There are folks who are "advanced" divers who went right to AOW from OW with very few dives in between. They are in no sense advanced divers irrespective of the certification they hold. A logbook is just a bunch of stuff you wrote down yourself, if that. What if you borrowed it from a buddy?

I guess the straight up answer in the real world to your question, "What is the value of certifications and log books if they are utterly disregarded?" is "very little" when it comes to what they are worth to a dive op deciding whether to take you to Maracaibo. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Go with the flow. If your first dive on Cozumel has to be Paradise or Tormentos, so what? Compared to the diving at a whole lot of other destinations you could go to, they are stellar. Show the DM that you can handle yourself with great buoyancy control and not blow through your air in 15 minutes, and tomorrow he'll take you somewhere more challenging. Put your ego in the sidecar and enjoy yourself.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That is not at all what he said! AND a babysitting DM is there to assist NEW divers that need extra help - not to make money for the dive shop and not to give the diver carte blanche of dive sites, and not for ALL divers - only those that are new! As a paying diver, wouldn't you appreciate not having the dive guide's attention taken away from the other paying divers because he is busy taking care of a new, scared or vry rusty inexperienced diver?

BTW - the extra $50 - $60 is NOT a profit center for dive shops here - it actually costs the shop a paying space because we are regulated on how many passengers and crew we are allowed on any given boat. If a boat has 6 permits - then we are only allowed 6 divers + 2 crew - an extra crew member, the private DM actually takes a spot from a paying diver. The fee only covers the DM's salary and tanks for the day!

But I guess you know more about running a dive shop than those of us who actually do run shops here in Cozumel.

I have no issue with a Mexican making money, I have an issue with an utter disregard for experience, log book and certifications and an inflexible policy. I won't be diving with that Aldora.... with that policy of arrogant disregard.... I am very appreciateive of the owner explaining his policy in clear and understandable terms.. Pay for another DM to babysit you or they dictate where you dive... Is that like "professional courtesy" LOL

 

[Christi]

I have no issue with a Mexican making money, I have an issue with an utter disregard for experience, log book and certifications and an inflexible policy. I won't be diving with that Aldora.... with that policy of arrogant disregard.... I am very appreciateive of the owner explaining his policy in clear and understandable terms.. Pay for another DM to babysit you or they dictate where you dive... Is that like "professional courtesy" LOL

Again, that is NOT what Dave said. You completely misread and took it completely out of context.

AS far as dictating where you dive, interpret it how you want - but it is not like that!