Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[Drewpy]

@ DD- I'm with Olyuser. Cert and log books do not mean a lot to me. I dive in Monterey and hooked up with a guy who was a "divemaster" and trained in Utila. About 30mins into the dive he grabs my arm and gives me the thumbs up surface signal and surfaces right in the middle of a kelp raft (which is a no no) and proceeds to tell me he is out of air.. and needs to buddy breathe to get back out of the kelp.
So..I do not trust ppl's skills, even if they are DM's!
Aldora is a fine dive op by the way..I dove with them on my last trip years ago and will again.

 

[sidne]

As far as suggesting that newbies & rusty divers hire private DMs the first day or even a few days, many of us have here for some time - and I only wish more would. I wish more Instructors would push that idea. We all have our opinions and I do not think of Cozumel as good newbie diving, would rather see them on a Key Largo boat that caters to newbies - and that's where I went first. Newbies & cruise boat divers are going to show up in Coz tho, diving rental gear they don't know and such. The losses per 100,000 dives may well be low, but some safer suggestions might be appropriate.

Thanks to you and the others on the board for repeating this suggestion. I was certified in Cozumel in November. I went back at the end of December with my niece and she was certified there. In both cases I asked the instructor whether we should hire a private DM for our post-certification dives (either for a day or two or the rest of the week). Both times the instructor told me that he didn't think it was necessary. I never would have even thought to ask if I hadn't seen all of the suggestions here.

Having seen all of the suggestions here almost certainly led to me exercising greater care and having an increased appreciation for the difficulty of diving in Cozumel.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

So you think because someone has certifications/log books that they are qualified to dive anywhere they want? No way..I don't even trust to take an instructor out on my boat until I go in the water with them and see that they are safe..I was down in Coz last year with my wife at La Cieba diving with Babieca divers and was signing up for a first dive with an operator that I never knew before. There was a person in line ahead of me acting all upset because the operator would not take them until he was "evaluated " by them to be capable to dive..He went on and on about such an expert he is,he is an instructor,blah,blah...After he left I told the individual at the operation that I like the idea of checking out unknowns and that I want him personally to check me out, thinking I can have some fun like putting my tank on upside down, dive with only 1 fin, or no mask,or mask replacement with an upside down mask and clear it..He said,"no, I don't have to check you out,that guy I remember from last year and he can't dive"...I told him I really liked his policy!

What is the value of certifications and log books if they are utterly disregarded? The operator (Aldora) seems to indicate that no check out dive is necessary as long as you pay extra money to have a DM babysit a diver. I think I will try to find an operator that will look at the whole picture: log book, certifications, experience and possibly a 2 minute interview before taking the attitude that it is all meaningless. I've seen many incompetant instructors myself, but I could generally see them comming a mile away...

I worked for years as a DM, where it was important for me to ID problems before they splashed and to intervene to try to ensure they were safe and had fun. Hell, the people ARE being led by a DM in Coz. if they are worried that the guy with a gazillion dives might have forgot everything, they can ask him to dive with the normal DM on the first dive, rather than demand they pay for a personal DM.

 

[diverrex]

FWIW - Bonaire - check out dive prior to diving is requirement if diving in the marine park by STINAPA. I dislike more rules and regulations anywhere, but with the conditions and popularity of Cozumel, I have to wonder...

But you do the checkout dive in Bonaire with just your buddy not a DM. I guess it's your chance to make sure everything is ok with gear, weighting, etc. but it's still only a self monitoring thing. And your tag from STINAPA is good for a year so you could do a checkout dive in January, not make another dive till December but not need to do a checkout dive for the December trip.

---------- Post added January 15th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ----------

I hate doing math, so someone should correct me if I am wrong because I probably am. But just because l didn't have much to do this morning, I made a rough calculation of Cozumel diver deaths relative to the number of divers daily. A contract DM here on the island told me yesterday that in his experience and recollection, about 5 divers lose their lives here annually. (We didn't parse that number any further). Just to keep the math simple, assuming 1000 dives made each day (roughly 500 divers), that works out to 0.0019 per cent! When you consider how many of these divers are inexperienced holiday divers, that is an impressive testament to how good the DMs here are. (You can change pretty much any of my numbers above - since they are largely pulled from thin air - and the percentage will still remain amazingly low.)

I think locally here in Southern California we get about 5 scuba deaths a year. We may have 1,000 dives on Saturdays and Sundays but less than that on the weekdays, and probably less during winter weekends. It's too bad that the denominator in the equation is always a rough estimate. It would be interesting to have better data to make these type of comparisons. All things considered though scuba is relatively safe.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Dumpster Diver,

In 20 years here, the very worst diver I have ever been in the water with had 250 logged dives. The most scary personal incident for me was with the son of a Dive Shop owner from Monterey CA who had lots of dives in the cold dark waters of the Pacific. A famous line from Jack Nicholson was '"Rule #2 is that with age, never trust a fart". The same holds true for log books.

But truly, after the first dive in which we still make very interesting, we have our divers on appropriate boats at appropriate dive sites. I think our reputation may speak for itself.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[diverokc]

I think that is why so many people are so loyal to their dive shops. I know i am- they know my abilities and i know what to expect from them. I agree i met people who claim to be divemasters on paper and have 200 lake dives and i see them flounder around in cozumel .

 

[halocline]

I believe that the 2nd most dangerous diver I've ever encountered was a recreational dive instructor. And one of the safest divers I've ever met was a recreational dive instructor....soooooo. Dive safety has everything to do with judgement, decision-making skills, self awareness. Of course experience and training have a lot to a diver's skills, but not everything.

Dumpster, if you don't want to be told what to do, stay off of someone else's boat.

 

[Mike]

What is the value of certifications and log books if they are utterly disregarded?

I find it extremely hard to believe you were a working dive master and would ask that question. You should have witnessed the answer to your own question within the first 30 days of being a new dive master.

 

[Mike]

But you do the checkout dive in Bonaire with just your buddy not a DM. I guess it's your chance to make sure everything is ok with gear, weighting, etc. but it's still only a self monitoring thing. And your tag from STINAPA is good for a year so you could do a checkout dive in January, not make another dive till December but not need to do a checkout dive for the December trip.

Orientation: All SCUBA divers must attend an orientation with their dive operator (the center from which air tanks are obtained) before diving in the BNMP. The orientation consists of a ‘dry’ part and a ‘wet’ part. The ‘dry’ part is a briefing on the Bonaire National Marine Park rules. The ‘wet’ part of the orientation is the check out dive, which is always supervised by the dive operation providing air. Repeat divers are required to attend a dive orientation and perform a check out dive every time they are back on island.

Returning divers are supposed to repeat the process, if you skip it you're violating STINAPA's rules, you're not taking advantage of a loop hole. Even if it was a loophole, at least within the last year you'd have demonstrated you know how to dive, that's a better baseline than nothing at all.

Rules were obviously made to be broken, pointing out broken rules in Bonaire is fun, however I don't know what it would have to do with Cozumel. They would be free to adopt their own specifics to the guidelines/rules if they implemented a required check out dive, the details, enforcement etc would be up to them. Bonaire's enforcement and implementations are only an example of their enforcement and implementations, it doesn't mean another country is required to duplicate their weaknesses.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Orientation: All SCUBA divers must attend an orientation with their dive operator (the center from which air tanks are obtained) before diving in the BNMP. The orientation consists of a ‘dry’ part and a ‘wet’ part. The ‘dry’ part is a briefing on the Bonaire National Marine Park rules. The ‘wet’ part of the orientation is the check out dive, which is always supervised by the dive operation providing air. Repeat divers are required to attend a dive orientation and perform a check out dive every time they are back on island.

Granted I have only been to the island 3 times but not once has an operation staff even watched me walk into the water, let alone get in with me.