what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[PfcAJ]

Like ScubaSam


Corrected the spelling of exist .... assuming that is what you meant

A typographical parapraxis. Maybe I meant both

 

[Moonglow]

Never have I seen so much stupidity posted in one thread. And this endless "7' hose or die" debate that some of you participate in is pathetic.

I have now have been a NAUI instructor for six years and a cave diver for five-- I use the Hogarthian rig for all diving except when teaching. Our shop does not recognize as agencies GUE, UTD nor a 100 other groups that offer training and "c-cards". Whether a group can get, and keep, insurance for their standards is not relevant-- our insurance does not insure us for instruction outside of the agencies listed above.

I find it surprising that some of you can't see the difference between the way NAUI opperates than that of GUE. We welcome GUE divers all, but to dive with our groups you will need to present a level appropiate c-card from the above listed agencies.

I am off this thread.

 

[randy88k5]

I do not have training with UTD or GUE, but I dive with divers who do. I happen to think the training of those agencies is excellent.

For a business owner/worker, you are not showing a lot of class. I know of one shop I will not be diving with in the future.

 

[OldNSalty]

-- our insurance does not insure us for instruction outside of the agencies listed above.

FWIW I think if you had stated that earlier then that would have settled it for a large part....at least had taken most of the heat off of you.

 

[Adobo]

I have now have been a NAUI instructor for six years and a cave diver for five-- I use the Hogarthian rig for all diving except when teaching. Our shop does not recognize as agencies GUE, UTD nor a 100 other groups that offer training and "c-cards". Whether a group can get, and keep, insurance for their standards is not relevant-- our insurance does not insure us for instruction outside of the agencies listed above.

Since Moonglow has chosen to excuse himself/herself from this thread without elaborating on his/her posts, I wonder if one of you could indulge me. (I really am trying to follow the line of reasoning but I seem to be having trouble)..

Does this mean that Moonglow does not view GUE/UTD as agencies because their insurance company says GUE/UTD (and a 100 others) are not officially recognized agencies? Because the previous post from Moonglow said:

"GUE and UTD are not agencies by definition, they are more akin to regional dive clubs (there are others like them as well). We do not agree with the intent of GUE's teaching standards, which are more inline with indoctrination than that of instruction which results in independent thinking divers."


​

It seems like the former and the latter are two very different things.

I find it surprising that some of you can't see the difference between the way NAUI opperates than that of GUE. We welcome GUE divers all, but to dive with our groups you will need to present a level appropiate c-card from the above listed agencies.

Can someone help me understand what Moonglow's rationale is for why NACD would be considered a scuba certifying agency or even the Red Cross but not GUE/UTD? I mean, NACD has had some issues of late and the Red Cross, well, if you can list the Red Cross as an accepted agency, why not GUE? Incidentally, does anyone have a Red Cross open water card? I'd love to see a pic of one.

If someone knows where Moonglow works, I'd love to call their shop to get more info on their rationale for deciding which organizations are considered agencies and which ones are considered cults.

 

[chrpai]

Never have I seen so much stupidity posted in one thread. I have now have been a NAUI instructor for six years and a cave diver for five

Funny, in 2009 you posted you were a brand new NAUI instructor. That would only be three years.

 

[boulderjohn]

Since Moonglow has chosen to excuse himself/herself from this thread without elaborating on his/her posts, I wonder if one of you could indulge me. (I really am trying to follow the line of reasoning but I seem to be having trouble)..

Does this mean that Moonglow does not view GUE/UTD as agencies because their insurance company says GUE/UTD (and a 100 others) are not officially recognized agencies?
...
Can someone help me understand what Moonglow's rationale is for why NACD would be considered a scuba certifying agency or even the Red Cross but not GUE/UTD? ...

I think an enormous percentage of this thread has been spent trying to figure that out. I suspect the answer to those two questions is that no, no one will be able to help you understand. Apparently we are all too stupid.

 

[Adobo]

FWIW I think if you had stated that earlier then that would have settled it for a large part....at least had taken most of the heat off of you.

I dunno. Its one thing for someone to say that their insurance does not cover blah blah blah. Its another for someone to say broadly that this organization is not an agency. I mean, I would expect that if Moonglow's shop looked for a different insurance provider, they could find one that would cover activities wherein GUE/UTD certifications were provided as proof of adequate training. If that is the case, would GUE/UTD then be considered agencies in Moonglow's eyes?

 

[boulderjohn]

I know UTD is insured and I would be stunned to find that GUE is not.

 

[Gombessa]

I dunno. Its one thing for someone to say that their insurance does not cover blah blah blah. Its another for someone to say broadly that this organization is not an agency.

There's also the subtle redefining of the argument at play. It's gone from "UTD/GUE are not agencies by definition" to "our insurance doesn't cover us for instruction (emphasis theirs)" by these agencies, to "you still can't dive with our groups with these cards," presumably even outside of a class/instruction scenario. It's a bit all over the place and I can't tell what is the actual argument being attempted.