How to get your "buddies" attention?

[DevonDiver]

I think noisemakers have their place. I often dive as part of a group of 6-8 friends. Although we're buddied up, sometimes you want to get the whole group's attention. That said, I agree it's annoying to be diving with people who overuse them. A noisemaker shouldn't be used as a crutch to make up for lax buddying.

I lead groups of divers on a very regular basis. It's my job.

Funnily enough, I have no problem gaining the attention of, or communicating with, such groups - without reliance upon a noisemaker.

One thing about noisemakers.... the owners are usually the same people who complain they never see much marine life on dives.... just saying

 

[TSandM]

If I am diving with 100' vis I separate much farther vs diving in the muddy Colorado lakes. Depth also plays a role. If I am diving in 25' of water with 50' vis I really do not depend on a buddy as I can easily go to the surface in an emergency. I will stick with my buddy but we may be 20' apart. If you can not see 10' then that dictates how far you can be from a buddy. Team diving does not work well in low vis situations.

This really says a great deal about your approach to buddying up, more than anything. I believe that I carry my buddy's spare gas, and he carries mine; I'm there to help with any problems he might encounter, and he's there the same way for me. THAT's what limits how far apart we dive, not the viz; even in Cozumel, where we could see forever, we rarely got more than ten feet or so apart (which is plenty of room to swim and kick and buzz around to look for critters). Although, in very shallow water, I might regard the surface as the first resort in the event of an issue, that would be rare; primarily, my buddy is my first resort, because once I have secured him, I have so many more options.

I would also take issue with the idea that team diving doesn't work well in low viz. Now, in zero viz, you're right -- but outside of PSD divers, why dive in zero viz? (Yeah, I know, shark teeth . . . ) In Puget Sound, we always dive in reduced visibility, and our average summer viz is probably 10 feet at best. We have an active team diving community here -- it works extremely well in low viz, far better than random buddy skills.

 

[RonFrank]

It has more to do with how far you can swim after exhaling without another breath from the regulator. Basing allowable seperation on visibility is wrong.

Visibility has everything to do with 'allowable separation'. If you have 2 feet of vis your allowable separation is MUCH less than if you have 30' of vis. It sounds cool to say vis has nothing to do with it, but the reality is that its not true. I've held hands on low vis dives. I've been 20 feet from a buddy on a good vis dive.

The key which no one is discussing is what you agree upon BEFORE the dive and what you are comfortable with. I always dive with a pony on vacation dives so I am prepared to go solo. Folks love to talk in absolutes on SB but I would rather talk about how I actually do things. Vis, depth, current, and other factors all come into play and define how you dive with a buddy. It's not the same for every buddy and my family does not dive. One big factor is what type of buddy I am paired with. Many are great, some are not..... People who always dive with their spouse are lucky. Many of us do not have that luxury.

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....even in Cozumel, where we could see forever, we rarely got more than ten feet or so apart (which is plenty of room to swim and kick and buzz around to look for critters).

So in Coz you were willing to get 10 or more feet apart which is more than you would do in low vis? But vis has nothing to do with it right?

Why argue, visibility IS a factor. Also if your buddy was a horrible buddy this may impact your ability to buddy up well and team diving just went out the window. This is something I have run across and more than a few times. SB may be a magical place where buddies do their best and vis is always good but that is not the environment anybody can always dive in.

 

[TSandM]

I'm sorry if I implied that viz has nothing to do with it. Obviously, I don't want to be farther from my buddy than I can see him; but just because I can see him, does not mean we are close enough together.

I have done more than a few dives with new divers or visiting divers who have no clue what "team diving" is, and sometimes don't have any skills for even maintaining a buddy pair. Except for one occasion when I joined a buddy pair who it turned out had no particular plan to stay together, I've always been able to maintain what I consider acceptable proximity to my buddy. Sometimes I had to do all the work . . . No, in real life, not everybody is perfect (not even DIR divers ), but in real life, I do what I represent myself as doing here on SB.

 

[fire_diver]

Folks love to talk in absolutes on SB but I would rather talk about how I actually do things.

What gives you the right to claim I don't execute dives as I discus here or anywhere? Just because you decide to play "same ocean buddy" on your dive trips doesn't mean everyone does. SOME of us hold ourselve to higher standards and express our desire for others to at least attempt those goals in thier dives.

 

[Kharon]

Accessories aren't the answer to your problem. Proper training and execution of buddy procedures are. You shouldn't ever be so far away from your dive team that you cannot communicate effectively. Just like in a car, where you don't drive faster than you have the visibility to stop - in diving you don't dive further away than you can see your buddy. If that means you're holding on to their arm or harness, then so be it. Take a read through "touch communication" procedures that are used in caves and wreck exits with zero visibility.

The only acceptable communication tools are your hands, your light and a slate or notepad. Accessories that make noise ruin other peoples' good times and give everyone the favor of having you scare off skittish wild life.

Did you even read my post. She descended and immediately set of a zero vis silt storm as soon as she was down. Didn't wait for me, just took off. I tried to follow the silt path but no go. I don't need preachy bushwah and superior sermons. Proper training and execution on my buddies part - yes. When they act like a moron I need a way to get their attention.

 

[TSandM]

Kharon, I feel for you! There are so many tools required to maintain good buddy behavior -- sounds like your buddy on this dive couldn't control her descent very well, so you weren't able to stay in contact on the way down, and when she hit the bottom, her dive skills destroyed the visibility, so you couldn't see her there. When you combine that with her taking off before making sure of her buddy, you have a kind of perfect storm for team separation. The problem is that I doubt someone who behaves that way would respond to a noisemaker, even if you had one of the DiveAlerts that sets off a horn underwater!

The problem with trying to find a way to get such a person's attention, once the problem has occurred, is that it's like trying to put Bandaids on someone who's been mauled by a lion. The secret is to avoid the lion in the first place . . .

 

[fire_diver]

...... I recently descended with a woman that used her hands to pull herself forward in silt to get moving forward then really blacked things out when she started finning. Never looked back. I obviously lost her.

Did you even read my post. She descended and immediately set of a zero vis silt storm as soon as she was down. Didn't wait for me, just took off. I tried to follow the silt path but no go. I don't need preachy bushwah and superior sermons. Proper training and execution on my buddies part - yes. When they act like a moron I need a way to get their attention.

Not trying to jump on you here, but your first post describes that you descended with the buddy, you describe here techniques and then claim to lose said buddy. How could you describe the hand usage if you were up on the surface when it happened?

You are new to SB, so let me explain how things tend to work around here. When you post dive problems, you aren't going to get a lot of "ahh poor baby" type respsonses. When you ask for gear additions, you aren't likely to get magazine ad recommendations. You are more likely to get HONEST analysis of your diving techniques that led to the problem, and honest critiques of what gear is useless junk marketed to newbies, and what works.

Nobody does it to try to make themselves feel superior, or to try to make you look bad. It's an attempt at "online mentoring". We can't be there to dive with you and make suggestions. Sometimes advice here tends to be read more condescending or argumentative than would ever be construed in person. Try not to look for ways to be offended and ALL forums become much more enjoyable.

 

[gypsyjim]

Almost Nobody does it to try to make themselves feel superior, or to try to make you look bad. It's an attempt at "online mentoring". We can't be there to dive with you and make suggestions. Sometimes advice here tends to be read more condescending or argumentative than would ever be construed in person. Try not to look for ways to be offended and ALL forums become much more enjoyable.

Sometimes ego does enter the picture/

It pays to have a thick skin on SB.

You will usually get very honest answers here, or at least answers people feel strongly about, and they may not always be the answers you were hoping for. but if you are willing to listen and think about the general direction of the responses you get to your posts, you can learn. Not everyone who posts is nice about how they respond, some are a bit harsh but well meaning, and not every answer is going to be accurate, or fit the question you asked. And occasionally you WILL get a deliberately nasty comment, but they are thankfully pretty rare.

This IS the internet after all.

 

[Kharon]

Not trying to jump on you here, but your first post describes that you descended with the buddy, you describe here techniques and then claim to lose said buddy. How could you describe the hand usage if you were up on the surface when it happened?

Why would you assume I was on the surface? I was right behind her and about 4' off bottom as she hit bottom. The silt storm was nearly immediate. Her pawing the silt and finning through it and brought vis to absolute zero in seconds.

Don't know what the lakes are like in

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The problem with trying to find a way to get such a person's attention, once the problem has occurred, is that it's like trying to put Bandaids on someone who's been mauled by a lion. The secret is to avoid the lion in the first place . . .

I hear you. Last time I will buddy with an unknown. I joked with some other members of the club that I was going to get a 10 foot rope to put around a "buddies" neck when the vis is likely to be poor. It didn't bother me to have been deserted because I'm well equipped and have the skills & experience to dive solo. I just was pissed that I had to waste a dive searching for her and worring (given her "technique") that she might drown.