Help with trim-PADI style hover skill

[tracydr]

Help! I'm having huge issues with the PADI style (Indian chair) method of hovering. I can't seem to get properly trimmed to sit in an Indian style fashion and not tip over hovering completely upside down, head down, sometimes tilted to one side or the other.
I'm practicing in the pool right now, no exposure suit, just a nylon skin. AL 63, regular BC since that's what I need to do the skills test in. I've tried doing this skill in a borrowed Bp/ wing and it was quite a bit better, although not perfect.
I currently have no trim weight, no weight belt and still seem a bit negative, just from the air in my full tank.
In an empty tank, I need about two pounds, but don't have any two pound weights, so when my tank gets low, I end up having to add my larger weights as trim weights. I need to run to the LDS and buy some different trim weights to experiment with.
but, right now, what I really need is advice. Where do I need to put these trim weights?
Not real keen on adding an exposure suit for my pool work right now. The water is actually 91 degrees, outdoor temp is 110 most days.
when we go to the lake, once it cools off, I'll switch to my drysuit and start all over.
Trying to prepare for my DMC skills test. Thanks!

 

[Hawkwood]

Help! I'm having huge issues with the PADI style (Indian chair) method of hovering. I can't seem to get properly trimmed to sit in an Indian style fashion and not tip over hovering completely upside down, head down, sometimes tilted to one side or the other....

Who is telling you that you must hover in an "Indian Chair" pose? The skill, either for the DM or the student, is to hover motionless - that is all. There is no requirement spelled out for the form in which the hover must be done.

 

[DevonDiver]

There's no requirement to use the 'Indian Chair' as your buoyancy/hover model. I think that just gets used because so many divers are over-weighted and bottom-heavy, so it's easier/more stable for them. If you've got a good horizontal hover, just use that - it's better role-modelling and more relevant to diving anyway IMHO.

 

[oly5050user]

sitting cross legged as in their video is not required.But probably used as pool is shallow and visually effective for the camera. Try starting out in a fin pivot position and then gently push off the bottom as if you are doing a pushup into a horizontal hovering neutral position.

 

[Hawkwood]

...But probably used as pool is shallow and visually effective for the camera...

I think it also visually "emphasises" not skulling or finning.

 

[tracydr]

Hmm. I guess I can ask if the chair style is required. I was going off of the video and also You-tube examples, as well as my Instructors example, when he showed me how he expected it to be performed.
Horizontal is certainly an easier position for me, although I am having a bit of trouble with feet being too low, I can work with that. In my drysuit it's not a problem, since I can have a bit of air in my feet.

I'd still like to be able to perform this ridiculous skill in the Indian chair style, now that I started trying to get it ,though. What would be causing me to go butt up/head down? I thought, since air is in the lungs, my butt should be the heaviest part of my body? I have again, no weight in my BC and I'm not using a weighted BP, just a regular jacket BC. So basically, my ballast is coming entirely from my tank, regulator, fins, gauges. I don't have any extra junk on my BC. Do I need to change my tank position up or down? I'm using an AL 63 so the tank isn't very long, fits me well.

---------- Post Merged at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:48 AM ----------

I think it also visually "emphasises" not skulling or finning.

This is why he wants me to do it this way. To emphasize no sculling or fin movement. Because it will be a demonstration for students.

 

[TSandM]

The physics of this are pretty simple. Basically, heavy things want to go down, and floaty things want to go up. Your body/gear system will rotate until the most negative parts are lowest, and the most positive things are at the top -- UNLESS you have your lift perfectly centered below your mass. And even if you can do that, the system will be unstable, in that any perturbation from the perfectly balanced state will immediately allow you to rotate to a more stable configuration.

One of the nice things about the horizontal hover is that it makes physical sense. The tank and regulator, which, when the tank is full, are the most negative things in your gear, are sitting directly above the air bladder, which is distributed along the length of the tank. In addition, you have the ability to adjust your balance with the positioning of your head, arms and legs. In the Buddha position, you have lost that counterweighting option with the limbs, so you are entirely dependent on balancing your equipment so that it will permit that position to be at least briefly stable. Since I have not found any utility for the Buddha position while actually DIVING, I've never had any interest in experimenting with my pool equipment to try to balance it for that.

 

[Hawkwood]

tracdyr,

If that is the case, and your Instructor wants you to hover in the "Buddha" position, then you will have to work at it. However, suggest to him/her that you might also consider showing the students that they can "hover" in other positions, so long as their hands and feet are still. Show the "Buddha" for a bit, allow yourself to roll over and be still for a bit, then hug your knees to your chest for a bit, etc. That is what I do and that is what the DMC's or DM's that help me do when demonstrating the hover.

As TSandM pointed out, there is little practical purpose in trying to perfect that pose, or even forcing the students to mimic it, when the purpose of the exercise is for the students to understand the "concept" of being neutrally buoyant and how to use their lungs for control.

 

[Ordie]

I always have my OW students perform hover in pool using the sitting position holding their fin tips, only because it keeps them from kicking and sculling. hovering in the sitting position is not a requirement. Once I get students to the lake I will have them hover in a vertical or horizontal position.

 

[DevonDiver]

What would be causing me to go butt up/head down?.... I'm using an AL 63 so the tank isn't very long, fits me well.

At what point in the session do you demonstrate the skill? If the tank is more depleted, it'll get bottom-buoyant.