Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[Mike]

People who can't swim and want to get be a diver? Seriously?

 

[DevonDiver]

Handicapped or disabled divers would be a class of their own. I do not know any nor have I been exposed to any but would assume they have taken steps to have the proper support available if needed.

Handicapped and disabled divers have to pass the same watermanship assessments as able-bodied divers. No exceptions, as per agency standards.

 

[gcarter]

I am not trying to be confrontational at all, just expressing my personal opinion.

The joys of the internet. Speaking for myself, I never took it that way. I, also, am just expressing an opinion.

I saw a saying once, "never assume ill intent". Not always easy to keep in mind in some of these debates, but I try

 

[RTee]

Handicapped or disabled divers would be a class of their own. I do not know any nor have I been exposed to any but would assume they have taken steps to have the proper support available if needthanksed.

thanks. I am not trying to be confrontational either. I now know what you are basing your reasoning on. Not sure if you ever scuba dived with non-swimmers either knowingly or not but you could be very surprised. I have and I have no problem trusting him with my life as a diving buddy which is not necessarily the case with some ''qualified and experienced divers'' I have met and seen on some diving outings.

 

[TMHeimer]

yes they can do 300yd mfs option, but still must do 10 min tread water with no swim aids..

At our shop it the type of swim is an option-- for the instructor. Some require the swim, others the m/f/s/. I interpret it as a choice for the student, but could be wrong. When I took OW we were required to tread water for 10 mins. No floating, must stay vertical and move limbs. Obviously our instructor was not following the standards, but what did I know then? Then (being very negatively buoyant), I heard of drown proofing, which turns the "float" into no real task at all. Too bad there can't be one way for all. Seems too easy.

 

[DevonDiver]

At our shop it the type of swim is an option-- for the instructor. Some require the swim, others the m/f/s/. I interpret it as a choice for the student, but could be wrong.

That would be an incorrect interpretation. Student's don't get to dictate the conduct of training - that's the responsibility of the instructor.

When I took OW we were required to tread water for 10 mins.

The 'survival float' is universal - regardless of whether swim or mfs option is chosen.

No floating, must stay vertical and move limbs. Obviously our instructor was not following the standards,..

Correct, he wasn't. He was conducting that exercise incorrectly - something that could not be justified should the matter be raised in a QA process by his agency.

Too bad there can't be one way for all. Seems too easy.

Agency standards, especially for PADI, exist to ensure commonality between the conduct of courses. Naturally, there's no accounting for instructors who choose, or are negligent, to apply those standards. Sooner or later, the QA process catches up with them.

 

[Peter Guy]

Not that it matters or that anyone writing on this thread cares, but it seems to me that a lot of this "discussion" really revolves around definitions -- "What does it mean to 'be able to swim.'" "What does it mean to be 'comfortable in the water.'"

I, for one, really don't know the answers to those two questions and from reading the responses, I'm not certain anyone else does either for each person seems to have his own idea as to what is "swimming" and what is "comfort."

For the record:

a. My step-mother is a very poor swimmer but she can "swim" (i.e., move through the water). She was, however, a very accomplished scuba diver (Back In The Day when Thal says that training made sense).

b. IF someone falls off a pier, or falls off a boat, the most important thing is for them to stay afloat -- not swim. Hey, if you've fallen off of something, doesn't that mean you are close to it? And if you can float for 10 minutes, what more, really, is needed?

c. As an instructor, I've made the decision that NONE of my students will do the 200 yard "swim" because it TEACHES THEM NOTHING and tells me very little. OTOH, having them do the 300 yard, MFS "swim" (or whatever you want to call it) as a buddy team, teaches them a lot and tells me something about their ability to be a diver.

d. I don't think I'm a very good swimmer although I've been in and around water all my life (my father was a national class swimmer in the 30's and 40's). While perhaps not a very good swimmer (by my standards), I was still able to out swim a much younger, former combat diver during our Fundies swim test.

Swimming is swimming -- diving is diving -- comfort in the water is comfort in the water -- being safe in the water is being safe in the water. There is overlap amongst all of these, but they are NOT the same!

 

[gcarter]

Handicapped and disabled divers have to pass the same watermanship assessments as able-bodied divers. No exceptions, as per agency standards.

Andy, check out HSA Non-Members

"Handicapped students are trained and certified according to HSA Physical
Performance Standards and a multilevel Certification system so exacting and
sensitive it enables us to train people with a wide range of disabilities,
including paraplegia, quadriplegia, the blind and those with high-functioning
brain injuries or mild retardation."

It depends on the agency. A quadriplegic will NOT be swimming on their own.

 

[fjpatrum]

That would be an incorrect interpretation. Student's don't get to dictate the conduct of training - that's the responsibility of the instructor.

Just a couple of quick questions, then... is it reasonable for an instructor to require the butterfly for the swim? Seems to me a reasonable option (and one most PADI instructor's I've heard of use) is "student's choice as long as you can finish the distance" because the idea is whether or not you can swim to/from a dive site and or dive boat on the surface, right? This isn't a survival swim, it's a "real life distances" type swim that you might encounter getting to a boat on pick-up or swimming out to and in from a shore dive.

The 'survival float' is universal - regardless of whether swim or mfs option is chosen.


Correct, he wasn't. He was conducting that exercise incorrectly - something that could not be justified should the matter be raised in a QA process by his agency.

Then what is the "proper" method of doing the exercise? I haven't looked recently in my manual but I don't remember anything in the student manual about expectations for the float or the treading water exercises.

 

[k ellis]

I personally think that is how it should be done, if you cannot do those minor things you have no business scuba diving (disabled and handicapped excepted).

So your saying that I should not have been allowed to dive despite the fact I passed the required skills? No I could not swim but I could snorkle. Had I have not been allowed to certify as a diver I would not be able to swim today.