Making The Scuba Industry Better

[*dave*]

There is a middle ground, a bunny slope if you will, develop a system that helps vacation divers to enjoy themselves underwater always with the assistance of leadership personnel.

It already exists. SSI has a a "Scuba Diver" cert that is exactly that. I've issued two in the last two years.

 

[dmoore19]

There is a middle ground, a bunny slope if you will, develop a system that helps vacation divers to enjoy themselves underwater always with the assistance of leadership personnel.

That is an idea. With variation in training that is currently available it seems like some get good training others not so much. I know I fit the vacation diver category. I still feel confident that I understand the basic skills needed for diving. I took the AOW class with 30 dives and now have 50. I plan on getting rescue diver by the time I have 100 dives. I will continue to dive for fun and getting more training. At my age that should suffice as I have no aspirations of anything professional.

It seems to me the recent cluster of deaths were more experienced divers. Poor Training may or may not be the reason for people quitting. But vacation divers such as myself continue to dive and learn, some just don't get it. But I do not think the vacation diver is the problem in the industry. It was a dream I had for many years and I am glad I have the resources to be able to enjoy a trip or 2 each year and hope for more than that.

Not knowing a lot about the retail part nor do I know a lot about the training but I certainly think my training was adequate and it is my responsibility to improve on every dive.

 

[endurodog]

Well again SB has gone into the "more training is the only way to fix the horrible broken scuba divers" mode. Predictable.

Back to the OP's orginal idea. Due to my day job I have had to go to many classes on training and management. People learn in different ways, women and men, and even generational. After some of these classes watching the differences really opened my eyes about different thought processes on learning. I believe there are a number out there that need (and want) the dives to be over 2 days. I also believe that there are students who coould complete the course in one day. 2 dives early morning and 2 dives late afternoon with a 4 or 5 hour SI.

Now if this was an option would more people sign up for a class? Would this help to grow scuba? These things I don't know. Again the instructor would have to gauge if this was an option for the class and students he was training.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think that having some 'professional associations', that were actually professional associations would help in most cases.

If that were true, then debates like this would have some influence on the scuba industry, instead of just being hot air on the internet.

 

[k ellis]

I did not read all the responses so if I double something or repeat then I apologize in advance.......

Diving is meant to be fun and allow open water candidates the opportunity to enjoy and relax all the while spend quality time with experienced divers. Each agency does there own unique training standards though most seem similar. I will only therefore comment on my experiences and what they have meant to me and what I learned from them.

When you first get to the lake (Quarry or ocean) most candidates may be ready to take on the diving world and get it over with but they are still mostly all green with a handful occasionally who have completed DSDs or simply dove with someone while they were not certified (We all know this is not a good idea). These divers are just out of the confined water anywhere from hours to months depending on their scheduling and their needs. With this in mind the instructor in our class will take out so many at a time while the remainder of the class waits on the shoreline for their turn to go to training. this is great because as they sit and wait their turn they do like to ask the dive masters and more experienced divers who may have accompanied them on their quest for the covited C-Card. I as a dive master have had the pleasure of hearing some off the wall comments from new divers and even heard the rambo go getters who invented diving only to not be able to complete the course because it proved too much for them and their comfort level. Believe it or not I have seen candidates quit and never return.

our classes tend to migrate towards Eureka Springs and many of the students rent hotels over night there. This proves in itself to make the two days worthy of time though it is more pricey then a 1 day. People get to go and see the historical town which offers train rides, ghost tours (if your in to those things) and much much more. Many candidates though make life long friends and hang out in town with the dive masters in their non diving time and feel less stressed in a neutral environment. Believe it or not some of the most amazing questions that have been asked to me were done so at a local restraunt when the candidate relaxed and felt at ease. This allowed them to return the next day with a more positive spirit.

Rushing things can lead to even more complicated problems then I mentioned. What if one student is having difficulties and requires a little more time. This would neither be fair to him nor the group to hold every one up and make the class last from dawn till dusk either.

The industy is what it is and like any industry you can dig into it and find a million flaws or you can dig into it and find a million perfections.

My problems with the industry though are not in the training parts of it but more along the lines of the fact Scuba has become to so many people competitive and not relaxing. For example on this every one in the country right now is on edge because jobs are dropping faster then the bombs did in Berlin during World War II and because of this every one is trying to save a dollar. Because of this so many LDS are simply cold shouldering their clients who they discover have made an online purchase. Even egos are competitive on here where I have readrs get on here and right how they themselves are the reason scuba exist. I know of one member on here who used to blast people who gave their opinions on how Nitrox made them feel post dive and was very vocal and hateful with the comments. This negativity proves fatal for a lot of would be divers as they see the hate and want nothing to do with it.

Id say the best thing that could help the industry is simply good old honesty and a good hearted spirit towards the sport. Never downplay when people ask you if you can die because the truth is it can happen. And never use the words "Dont worry about it" but instead tell them the truth "It is a possibility you could become injured but by following your training and good common sense you greatly reduce the likely hood of injury"

People will provide false information on questionaires and this has been a debate on scubaboard longer then I have been a member. the downside to this is with HIPPA laws in place you cant access their medical history without their written consent (Usually has to be in person to their healthcare provider) so if they mark no then they also have signed the agreement of hold harmless for false information provided. if they mark yes then dont tell them just to go back and redo it and mark no. Though you may think your doing them a favor and honestly at that point in time you would be it leaves you open for big lawsuits if it were to result in injuries and past candidates came back to say you told them the same thing. And even more importantly think about the image people have of you when you tell a little white lie to make a customer happy and make a little more change.

Now to narrow all this down to the point of my letter. The industry needs to be more welcoming and more warm hearted and quit giving off the impression its all about money and nothing more.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well again SB has gone into the "more training is the only way to fix the horrible broken scuba divers" mode. Predictable.

Better training doesn't always equate into more training ... but one look at what goes on in the vast majority of dive destinations around the world would provide some pretty strong indications that the scuba training model is, in fact, broken. If you read the objectives of every agency's introductory scuba class you wil see they state that students should be able to engage in open water diving activities without supervision. This means they should be able to assemble their own equipment, plan and conduct a dive in conditions similar to those in which they were trained, and have achieved something referred to as "mastery" of their buoyancy control. And yet how many examples do you see that they have been certified without achieving any of those objectives?

This doesn't necessarily mean that these people didn't receive enough training ... but that the training they received was inadequate. There are any number of reasons why that might be the case ... any of which you can point to as systemic ...

1. Student variability - I absolutely agree with you that there are students out there who could master the objectives of a typical OW class (any agency's) in one day. But they are a tiny minority. Based on the total number of students I've taught over the past several years, I'd put it at about ...optimistically ... one in ten people who sign up for a scuba class. But when you have eight people in a class, you cannot design your curriculum around the ability of the brightest student ... you'll lose everyone else in the process. So the question becomes how do you gauge if an accelerated program is suitable for each student without breaking the class up to serve the needs of each ... and what would you gain if some students were given the opportunity to complete the checkout dives in one day while others needed two or more? My answer to that problem is small classes ... mostly one or two students at a time. But that model doesn't fit the business model of providing inexpensive training ... my classes aren't cheap.

2. Standards - Standards are meant to provide a framework for a class. They can be looked at as a baseline or a ceiling ... depending on the perspective of the person using them. For example ... define "mastery" ... it means different things to different instructors. For some it means performing a skill once ... while kneeling on the bottom. For others it means performing the same skill repeatedly ... and for the most demanding instructors, while holding your position off the bottom. Those are very different skill levels ... but they all achieve the intent of the standards. This leaves it up to the instructor to decide whether or not the student has met the objectives of the class ... and it's the biggest reason why so many insist that choosing a good instructor is more important than choosing an agency. A more thorough definition of what is meant by "mastery" could help clarify both the intent and the mechanics of what gets taught.

3. Instructor training - A person can become an instructor with very little practical experience ... as little as 50 dives in some agencies. That's barely enough to begin getting comfortable in the water for a lot of us. And because DM and instructor classes are more profitable for dive centers than OW and specialty classes, many people get talked into "living the dream" of being a scuba instructor before they're barely out of their OW class. So what you get are instructors who have gone from class-to-class-to-class, who can recite the standards and student materials chapter and verse, and who have very little comprehension of what it all means. They teach by rote ... not by understanding. They cannot define mastery of skills because they haven't yet achieved them. There's a fundamental flaw here ... you can't teach what you don't know. The bar needs to be raised ... dramatically ... for instructor training. As it stands now, many ... if not most ... really bad instructors don't even realize how bad they are ... because they have never been exposed to good instruction.

4. Business objectives - What is scuba training for most dive centers? I submit that it's a loss leader ... offered as an enticement to get customers into the store to purchase equipment. Dive centers don't remain in business by selling scuba training ... because they simply don't charge enough for their classes to be able to afford quality instructors and quality training. That model may have worked out OK for them during the latter part of the 20th century ... but it's an outdated model that's been obsoleted by the Internet. Online training and sales are making it harder and harder for the brick and mortar stores to compete. The answer for many is to reduce their prices even further ... but reducing prices necessitates an equivalent reduction in the quality of what's being offered. The OP's suggestion is an example of that sort of thinking. And while it may work out OK for a tiny fraction of students, it would be detrimental to the majority. So the question becomes how to you adapt a workable business model to address the needs of both students and the dive center? My answer would be to break up training and sales ... make each into its own profit center ... and base the business model of each on the needs of student training and the viability of your local market, respectively. With respect to sales, you need to break the death grip that the larger equipment providers currently hold on the market ... it's killing the local equipment provider. But that's its own issue, and one worthy of its own thread. With respect to training, it needs to be offered and priced in a way that sustains itself as a business ... not a loss leader. Because when it's viewed as a loss leader, the incentive to offer as little as you can get away with is overpowering ... and the result is what we see today, which is that the majority of people getting certified have learned just enough to not die while they're flailing around under the supervision of a dive guide. That is not ... and has never been ... the objective of the agency who issued the certification card those people were issued.

So ... in summary .... how do we make the industry better?

- Stop using cheap classes as an incentive to get people into scuba diving ... you get what you pay for in life and cheap classes almost always equates to inadequate instruction.

- Increase the requirements for scuba instruction ... people need to learn how to dive before they learn how to teach diving.

- Separate training from sales ... thereby removing the "loss leader" incentive that results in this "lowest common denominator" approach to scuba training.

- Adapt the business model of the dive center to the 21st century ... shops had better learn how to deal with and accommodate internet sales and training. Those who do will survive ... and those who cling to the old ways will go the way of the dodo bird.

Improved scuba training doesn't necessarily mean longer, harder classes. It means offering quality ... which you will never do as long as the primary motivation behind training is to offer "quick and cheap". Quick and cheap is great for getting people into the store ... but it will never help you keep them there. And sustainability can only occur when you establish long-term relationships with your customers, rather than basing your business on a one-time large sale.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[bletso]

Now to narrow all this down to the point of my letter. The industry needs to be more welcoming and more warm hearted and quit giving off the impression its all about money and nothing more.

Unfortunately in the end it is about money without which an LDS cannot exist. SCUBA is to some degree a dying sport at least from the perspective of its heyday. The psychology of of the masses has changed, life styles are totally different and quite frankly most can't be bothered with the time costs to dive safely. (Kind of like flying.)

Don't be too hard on the LDS staff to be irked when some ass comes in displaying his wares he bought from the web. That same idiot wouldn't do the same with Walmart. (Or perhaps he would but they could give a toss) There has to be a degree of respect and civility involved here somewhere.

Of course I am from another time and would never think to go the LDS with my imported gear from the web. I have been on both ends having owned a dive shop.

Safe Diving

Dale

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Unfortunately in the end it is about money without which an LDS cannot exist. SCUBA is to some degree a dying sport at least from the perspective of its heyday. The psychology of of the masses has changed, life styles are totally different and quite frankly most can't be bothered with the time costs to dive safely. (Kind of like flying.)

Don't be too hard on the LDS staff to be irked when some ass comes in displaying his wares he bought from the web. That same idiot wouldn't do the same with Walmart. (Or perhaps he would but they could give a toss) There has to be a degree of respect and civility involved here somewhere.

Of course I am from another time and would never think to go the LDS with my imported gear from the web. I have been on both ends having owned a dive shop.

Safe Diving

Dale

... and if you could make a further sale ... whether it's training, equipment, or service ... from that "idiot" ... then what have you gained by tossing him out of your shop?

This is the mentality that's killing the LDS ... (along with their placid acceptance of MAP and other such nonsense policies from the equipment manufacturers). The Internet is a reality ... shop owners need to stop opposing it (because they can't) and figure out ways to use it to better serve their needs and their customers.

Adapt or die ... it's how business works ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mike Boswell]

I'm not convinced that we have a "broken" system of dive training. I'm not sure what this idea is based on, since safety issues don't seem to support it. Yes, some of the divers are pretty awful, and many make some pretty dumb mistakes. But there are other factors involved besides training.

It's been my observation that most of the problems experienced by vacation divers seem to happen on the first dive of the trip. They haven't been diving in six months or a year, they are using new or rented equipment, they have forgotten various elements of their training, they've forgotten which way to turn a tank valve or how to set up their BCD. Their gear is disorganized, they are unfamiliar with the boat, the DMs and crew, and the routines. They are nervous, or excited, hung over, or exhausted from their travel. I, too, have forgotten things and made mistakes, and almost every time it has been on that first dive.

After that first dive, things become dramatically better as all the divers seem to find their groove. That's why I think it's so important to do a checkout dive first, and I wish everybody was required to do it.

 

[endurodog]

Better training doesn't always equate into more training ... but one look at what goes on in the vast majority of dive destinations =

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob I would disagree with you on some points in your post about training, not all. But the point of my comments is that the OP asked a question about making the OW training 1 day instead of 2. There was no talk about dumbing it down or lessening it. Unless you consider a shorter SI lessening training. Then the conversation turned (as so often happens on SB) to many posters giving their rants on how the industry is broken and putting out horrible divers.

It was my feeling that the OP's orginal question was a good one and deserved some well thought out debate. The scuba training is horrible stuff can be handled in another thread.