DM not helping students

[Antagonist]

I bought my father his open water class for fathers day. He is 54 years old. He went to the first day of class and they did the swim and the float. The DM told my father he had to swim non-stop for the preliminary swim. He did past because he was tired. Is there something wrong with them sending him home and not trying to work with him. They told him he needs to practice then come back, like he will get his swim stamina up in 1 week. Honestly home much freestyle swimming do you do underwater. Hell he tought me how to swim and snorkel he is just older with a body the military beat up. Fatigue ended his day, but he has the mechanics. Wrong for being upset?

 

[Sinbad Scuba]

I dont understand what you are trying to say. Did he complete the swim and float or not? The requirements are 200 meter swim, any style un-timed and a 10 minute float. It is not a question of fatigue but one of comfort in the water. Doing a long surface swim is not uncommon. I am not sure why they sent him home. Has he completed the book sessions and knowledge reviews? I have certified a non-swimmer but he did have to pass the swim and float test. Again, tell your Dad to just take his time and go easy.

 

[BoltSnap]

The swimming skills don't have to be done successfully the first session of the Scuba Diver course but they have be done successfully before the student is taken to the open water part of the course or is given a referral (unless, of course, the student can' swim, float AT ALL or is not comfortable in the water). If is a matter of being out of shape within reason, I'd still allow the student to continue with the class but he would have to get the all requirements done with a smile on his face BEFORE he is taken to open water or is given a referral.

Based solely on your description, I wouldn't have sent your father home just because he couldn't finish the swimming exercise. I'd have given him another chance before proceeding to open water.

 

[BoltSnap]

BTW, who is running the course, a DM or an Instructor??

 

[DevonDiver]

Swim test is a standard for certification. If a student cannot pass the test, then they cannot recieve certfication as a diver. That's the bottom line.

A 54 year old man, who is a competant swimmer, should have no problems with swimming 200m. If he does, then it is logical that he is given time to remediate his fitness and/or technique before progressing with the course. This is in the interest of his own safety. I applaud the dive operator concerned for abiding to the prudent standards attached to the course.

I have certified people far older than 54 years, who have had no problems with the swim test (the oldest was 72). I also know of instructors who have certified people with registered and severe disabilities (including missing limbs and blindness). Again, all of their students managed to meet, or exceed, the required minimum standards - including the swim test.

 

[BoltSnap]

DevonDiver,

The swim test is a "certification" requirement but it is not a cause for the student be prevented from continuing the confined water part of the course if the student had a bad first night.

 

[DevonDiver]

Firstly... glad to see that you are safe!

I think that many dive operators would schedule the swim test at the beginning of the course. Where students encounter problems meeting those minimum standards, they typically need more than a week to remedy the problem. In many cases, the (IMHO) prudent course of action would be to take pressure off the student and re-schedule them onto a later class - rather than expect them to work miracles within a week.

Whilst the course standards may allow the swim test to be completed at any time prior to certification, the dive operator may have valid reasons for wishing to ensure student water safety before in-water training commences.

Not least of these might be the fact that a subsequent failure to meet the swim standards could result in the need for further payment to cover refresher/supplemental lessons, should a course delay occur. It's better to delay start of the course, rather than delay completion.

Most dive operations clearly state the certification requirements for their courses. I am surprised that the students concerned didn't make a visit to their local pool, in advance of the course, to confirm their swimming performance. Perhaps they thought that the certification was automatic, or attendance based, rather than dependant upon them attaining a minimum standard of capability for their subsequent post-course safety?

In the case of this thread, it seems that the OP is expecting the dive operator to provide remedial swimming tuition for the student. Unless that was advertised as part of the course content, it would be unreasonable to expect such service from a dive (not swim) instructor.

 

[BoltSnap]

DevonDiver,

First, it is great to be back "online" exchanging opinions with you!!

I am inferring from your post that the basic course you teach is done all in one week. In this case, then there is no time for the student to learn and be comfortable with swimming. I am, on the other hand, don't teach the entire course in one week. My "Scuba Diver" course is usually 10 weeks meeting once a week. There are occasions where I teach private lessons that had to be completed within a week, I'd let the student know from the beginning that he can continue with the confined water part of the course but no certification, referral or open water work is done until he completes the swimming requirements.

I agree that it is unreasonable that the students would expect their scuba instructor will teach them swimming in the scuba course. The swimming requirements are clearly spelled out in the course information I give to the prospective student prior to their enrolling in the class. My students have to sign a "Student Agreement" that was reviewed by my attorney that clearly indicates students will have to fulfill all of the swimming requirements to the instructor's satisfaction prior to being awarded a certification. It also indicates that no refunds will be issued if the students doesn't hold their end of the deal.

I am more patient with the students who have "slight" difficulty with the swimming skills or who were tired during the first session and couldn't finish the skills successfully in their first night than with students who can't swim at all and would drown in the pool or with students who have mental block about being in the water.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The swim test is a prerequisite to being put on SCUBA in our system. 200 yds non stop. To complete the course they must do 300 before the end of confined water. They sent him home to train and build up his stamina it seems. I have done this myself because I am not a swimming teacher or coach. I can complete all the swims as required at the levels I need to but I realize my own technique needs work. For that reason I will not teach someone how to swim or advise them on how to improve their own SWIMMING technique. I don't know how. Diving is another story.

I am trying to arrange a session or two with a swim coach for myself. If the "DM" at the OP's fathers facility is not a swim teacher or coach he did exactly the right thing. You go to a pro for actual instruction.

 

[TSandM]

Antagonist, one of the common reasons for diver deaths nowadays is cardiac events. We lost two divers just a week or so ago in Puget Sound -- both of them were men of middle age. If your father is having trouble swimming 200 yards (with no time limit), imagine how he would feel if he had to swim against a little current to get back to the boat, or to get back to shore. Not only is stamina that bad a red flag for poor cardiovascular fitness, it's also true that exhausted divers on the surface can drown.

So, that's the reason the swim test is a requirement for proceeding to open water. I wasn't there to see how your father did with the swim test, but in my short career as a DM, I have yet to see anyone who couldn't complete it due to fatigue. (I've seen a kid who couldn't complete it the first try because of poor water comfort, but he did fine the next night.) I would guess that the reason they sent him home was because they didn't think he was going to be able to fix whatever the problem was within the time course of this class. Although it's a disappointment for him, maybe this is a wake-up call that he should get out and move around a bit more!