CESA from 40ft

[TSandM]

It's good to ask "what if" questions -- I'm a great fan of it.

But some things simply shouldn't happen, ever. Focusing on handling an out of gas emergency is LOSING focus on preventing one. Don't waste your effort worrying about CESAs, or practicing them. Spend your time ingraining good diving habits with regards to monitoring gas and staying together. The payoff is bigger.

And for those who took exception to my recommendation for a transmitter that would allow moerby to monitor his daughter's gas, I certainly did not mean to imply that that would take the PLACE of ensuring that she did that herself. I just know that, as a parent, belts and suspenders sometimes look like a good idea when it comes to your child's safety.

Moerby, in reality, you don't need a certain rate of exhalation -- what you need is to keep your airway open. If you do this, the expanding gas will escape, because you will let it go. The problem is that, for the novice diver, distinguishing between an open airway and a closed glottis may be difficult. Maintaining a constant exhalation at least absolutely ensures an open airway.

 

[Moerby]

Moerby, in reality, you don't need a certain rate of exhalation -- what you need is to keep your airway open. If you do this, the expanding gas will escape, because you will let it go. The problem is that, for the novice diver, distinguishing between an open airway and a closed glottis may be difficult. Maintaining a constant exhalation at least absolutely ensures an open airway.

That makes perfect sense, thanks!

 

[windapp]

I don't know how old your daughter is, but asuming she is old enough, and responsible enough to assist you in an emergency...
I think anybody's real concern should be how you are going to react in an emergency situation. Many diving accidents happen because people panic and throw out everything they have learned as a result. Talk about, and practise these situations often (maybe not the CESA without an instructor though). Get to the point that, even if you have an out of air emergency, you can just immediately go through air sharing procedures without so much as a second thought. Practise oral inflation, and weight dumping (somewhere you won't lose your weights). When you are diving together, enjoy each other's company so that you can stay close and confident.

 

[Akimbo]

This conversation is making me do my old-school curmudgeon thing again! First of all, I refuse to call a free ascent CESA (Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent) — a burdensome acronym that sounds far too ominous (probably intentionally). The recreational training industry has been playing-down the value of free ascents, or blow & go, progressively for the last 40 years.

Free ascents are very simple, as long as you know enough not to blow your lungs out, and slowly work up to them. I practice a free ascent at least once a year from at least 130'. Intellectually I know I can do them after all these years, the important part is not having to think about it. Any trepidation defeats what in my view is the primary purpose and could make a bad situation worse.

It is NOT like holding your breath and swimming the same distance horizontally. It is far easier. You are buoyant, only slightly if you do it right. The gas is expanding and being expelled, so CO2 buildup is far less.

The US Navy’s ascent rate has been 60’/minute for most of my life and there was no such thing as a safety stop. Hundreds of thousands, probably millions, of dives have been made safely during that period. The point is speeding up ascent is highly unlikely to cause decompression problems and preferable to certain drowning. When practicing, make the free ascent at the very beginning of the dive, before you absorb much Nitrogen. Then head back down and enjoy the rest of the dive. The exercise takes a few minutes.

Trained freedivers typically ascend and descent at 1 meter/second, or 200’/minute. That rate might actually get you bent. However the possibility of getting bent is far less of a medical emergency than the certainty of asphyxiation before reaching the surface.

The virtue is knowing deep in your soul that you are not going to die, thus there is no reason to panic.

OK OK, maybe I need less caffeine. Diatribe over.

 

[matt_w]

This conversation is making me do my old-school curmudgeon thing again! First of all, I refuse to call a free ascent CESA (Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent)...

The Navy manual instructs divers to drop weights and tools, inflate their buoyancy device and swim to the surface while exhaling for a free ascent. That actually is different then a CESA (at least for PADI and NAUI). That is called a buoyant ascent

 

[Akimbo]

The Navy manual instructs divers to drop weights and tools, inflate their buoyancy device and swim to the surface while exhaling for a free ascent. That actually is different then a CESA (at least for PADI and NAUI). That is called a buoyant ascent

Free ascents are known in many circles around the world to include ascents that are free of, or unaided by, assisted breathing devices. My Navy training (salvage diver as opposed to submarine escape or combat swimmer) said dump weight, but it was well understood as meaning “as and if” needed.

I never drop gear when practicing free ascents anymore, both for convenience and training for a worse case. Semantics was by far my lesser point, but clarification is useful to the discussion.

 

[JayJudge]

I dive with my young sons, I think I had my 10 yr old to 80 feet inside a shipwreck. If you doubt that your daughter has the maturity to monitor her air, then don't take her diving until she does.

On the other hand it is simple, you just show her your guage every 3 minutes and she has to show you hers. It is not too hard

Since no one else has said it- 10 year old son- 80 ft- inside a wreck? Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a junior diver had a max depth of 40 ft. Not to mention, no overhead environments...

 

[windapp]

Since no one else has said it- 10 year old son- 80 ft- inside a wreck? Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a junior diver had a max depth of 40 ft. Not to mention, no overhead environments...

Lot's of guys let there 10 year olds shoot guns too. There is always somebody who things that his own judgement and experience far exceeds what anybody else could possibly offer up.

There are very good reasons for the junior diver depth limits, not the least of which is the fact that the number of children who participated in decompression experiments = 0, but those who insist on breaking these limits are far to wise and knowledgable to head such warnings.

 

[captain]

Since no one else has said it- 10 year old son- 80 ft- inside a wreck? Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a junior diver had a max depth of 40 ft. Not to mention, no overhead environments...

I guess the scuba police were busy investigating another case and missed that infraction.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Since no one else has said it- 10 year old son- 80 ft- inside a wreck? Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a junior diver had a max depth of 40 ft. Not to mention, no overhead environments...

YouTube - ‪10 yr old Wreck Diver; Palm Beach‬‏


No it was not a joke.

My point is that I have no problem with children diving, as long as they know what they are doing. Hell, I had my 9 yr old spearfsihing in 60 feet and let him shoot my gun and the recoil knocked both his front teeth loose (a little). Mom was pissed about that one.