CESA from 40ft

[raftingtigger]

Something no one has yet discussed. From your posts it seems like both you and your daughter are either newly certified, or soon to be certified. Your daughter's age aside, be VERY CAREFUL about diving with two newbies as buddies. Get some experience yourself first before taking on the task of monitoring your child. Or at the very least have a responsible and experienced diver accompany you as a third in the buddy pair. Stay very simple. Good visibility, shallow areas, avoid adding tasks (photography, etc) until both of you are very comfortable. Take additional training. When you've got a few dives under your belt then take the Rescue class.

I've recently undertaken Divemaster training to supervise a older youth group. While I have been diving for 40 years and feel very comfortable underwater, it was a real eye-opener watching one of my youth PANIC and bolt for the surface during the mask flood drill. Kudos to the instructional team - they handled it very well - but I was sure glad I wasn't the one responsible yet.

Recent accidents and the training I've almost finished have changed my thoughts on supervising youth divers (mine are all over 14) and I've come to the conclusion that supervision needs to be close and buddies must contain one experienced and responsible diver in the group. No newbie pairs alone. This includes my two Eagle Scout sons (18 and 16). The OW training is BASIC. Newly certified divers have a LEARNER'S PERMIT. If you, and your daughter, are truly comfortable underwater there is less chance of having an emergency, and if you do, less chance of panic. How do you get comfortable? Experience and more experience. Just dive under easy conditions and get comfortable. Do some pool time, do games in the pool...

 

[Osric]

Unfortunately there is a huge difference between knowing the theory behind a CESA and doing one in a controlled setting, and having to do one unexpectedly when there is a real life-threatening emergency. While I'd love to say that my daughter will always do a textbook CESA given that she may be in a panicked state I'm not discounting her holding her breath while hauling ass for the surface.

In my view your training is to help you react properly when in a difficult situation. I think this corresponds with your view, because otherwise why practice CESAs in the ocean?

But the question you actually asked was:

I understand everybody's physiology is different so there isn't really a one-size-fits all answer, but in general, when someone does a CESA from 40 feet, how much risk to your health is there from that?

and what I was trying to say in my response was that it isn't about physiology so much as it is about executing a CESA properly. Do it right, and no problem. Do it wrong, and face bad consequences up to and including death.

If you are of a mindset that your daughter may panic in an emergency situation regardless of her training, or even panic during training, then I'd say the risk in your case is high. Only you can judge her ability to train for these outcomes and to handle them in practice.

Especially given your concern about her panic or her executing the skill improperly, I'd echo the advice of many others and say there are lots of other alternative skills to train that are both less risky in training and have greater value when diving. If you read the statistics on deaths while diving you usually find that a small thing triggers an ever escalating set of problems that ultimately leads to death or serious injury, and it's worth practicing all the skills that could prevent the chain of events that ultimately leads to CESA.

Osric

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I really like that idea. DumpsterDiver I know where you're coming from, but my daughter is 11 and let's face it ... kids have a difficult time focusing as it is, so when there's a million things to look at and do underwater, checking gauges may take a back seat. I got to say, she did incredibly well during the confined dives. She completed all the emergency/safety exercises without any problems - including mask removal and clearing, sharing the octo, etc. She's probably better at some of these skills than I am! But I have to be sure she can deal with an emergency by herself, even if that emergency will probably never happen. She will never dive alone, period. But even so, something may happen that takes me out, and creates an emergency for her. I know - PARANOID! - but after reading through some of the incidents in the "Accidents" forum I can't help but be worried.

Again, thanks for all the advice everybody. I'm sure that once we get to the open water dives, my fears will ease as a lot of it is due to not having actually gone to 40 feet.

I dive with my young sons, I think I had my 10 yr old to 80 feet inside a shipwreck. If you doubt that your daughter has the maturity to monitor her air, then don't take her diving until she does.

On the other hand it is simple, you just show her your guage every 3 minutes and she has to show you hers. It is not too hard

 

[TMHeimer]

I've practised CESA often from max 30' depth. Never from 40, though. I have heard that some have done it successfully from 80 or deeper. Of course when you practise, you take a good breath before ascending. This may not be the case in a real OOA situation. As mentioned, you must be able to do the CESA from whatever depth within the maximum "safe" ascent rate. It has been known to happen that too fast an ascent, or to slow an exhale, has trapped air in one part of the lung causing overexpansion-- even though the airway is always open and diver exhaling.

 

[Moerby]

I would say, if that's the case you should reconsider letting her dive at all.

If she isn't mature enough to monitor her own gas, she isn't mature enough to be diving yet.

If you doubt that your daughter has the maturity to monitor her air, then don't take her diving until she does.

Sure, that much is obvious! But let me be clear in case there's any doubt ... when we finally DO dive outside of a pool environment you can be damn sure I'll monitor her performance like a hawk, and if I feel she's not up to it, I won't let her dive, period.

At the same time, I've read enough threads on this forum to know that even the best divers get distracted, make mistakes, have equipment failures (your eyes can be glued to your SPG but if it's faulty, you will still run out of air!), get done in by mother nature, etc.

So while I hope for the best I will be planning for the worst if it's all the same to everyone, and part of that process is asking these questions.

 

[Osric]

I thought that much is obvious. Let me be clear ... when we finally DO dive outside of a pool environment you can be damn sure I'll monitor her performance like a hawk, and if I feel she's not up to it, I won't let her dive, period.

You haven't said it and I don't want to assume it, but your language implies that you'll be the only one diving with her. In that case, I think it would be good to consider yourself a solo diver, and get appropriate training if you can. If there is nobody who will be your buddy, I would consider you a fairly task loaded solo diver with a child to watch out for.

Osric

 

[Moerby]

if you want to dive with youngsters, there is a basic philosophy that should be followed when dealing with children that goes something like this:
You are the adult and the child is a child. A child is *not* a dive buddy, a child is a child.

Something no one has yet discussed. From your posts it seems like both you and your daughter are either newly certified, or soon to be certified. Your daughter's age aside, be VERY CAREFUL about diving with two newbies as buddies.

Very good points. One of the things I'm looking into right now is joining a local dive club. I totally agree that it will be safer all around if we dive with a group of more experienced divers.

 

[Thalassamania]

The first and foremost concern in a CESA is a lung over-expansion injury that results in an AGE. I am assuming that you know enough to avoid this. If you have any questions there, what-so-ever, stop and find an instructor to help you.

The secondary concern is bubble pumping, that is to say bubble creation/expansion on the venous side during an ascent that is subsequently compressed on descent travels through the lungs' capillary bed and then re-expands on the arterial side and creates an AGE. THis tends to be a problem when a diver goes back down to free the anchor, or something similar, after a dive of some significant duration.

 

[Moerby]

You haven't said it and I don't want to assume it, but your language implies that you'll be the only one diving with her. In that case, I think it would be good to consider yourself a solo diver, and get appropriate training if you can. If there is nobody who will be your buddy, I would consider you a fairly task loaded solo diver with a child to watch out for.

Osric

I will be definitely be diving with a group the first several dives, but I know where you're coming from though.

 

[Moerby]

The first and foremost concern in a CESA is a lung over-expansion injury that results in an AGE. I am assuming that you know enough to avoid this. .

Our training covered the theory and techniques involved in a CESA so I'm very comfortable that my daughter can handle a CESA without any problems whatsoever as long as she remains calm. The trouble is that a real-life OOA situation is probably going to introduce the element of panic which might be a game-changer. I have no reason yet to think she she won't be able to handle even a real-life OOA, but after reading the "Accidents" forum it's clear that there is no such thing as a done deal in an emergency situation, even if you have tons of experience. So to better prepare myself for ANY eventually I need to know what to expect when I get to the surface after my daughter did a CESA with a too-rapid ascent or without exhaling (or both!).