Change the Stamina Tests

[TMHeimer]

SubMariner, Yes, we know that. In Nova Scotia you have maybe 2 months a year when you can even consider being in the water without a wetsuit for any length of time (yes, I know you can wear an exposure suit for the 400 if weighted for neutral buoyancy). Most divers here own a 7 mil wetsuit or drysuit--no good for swimming--no 3-5 mils or body suits, shorties (for pool use here only). As well, we have one shop basically for the whole province and the tests are always done at a pool. Unless the shop changes on this, that is our only choice. I wouldn't expect such a change due to scheduling of DM (and OW) courses and those other reasons. For all the stuff being discussed, you could just substitute (calm) "confined water" for "pool" anyway. The only real difference would be that I would imagine everything (especially the float) would be somewhat easier buoyancy-wise in salt water.

 

[MarineResearch]

If people want some true, real life fitness and stamina tests, perhaps PADI should consider skills like a 200 meter tank haul where candidates have to move 50 tanks from point A to Point B 200 meters away.

The PADI swim skills are on the easy side, but adequate to weed out candidates that lack some basic fitness skills. These skills may not have direct applications to being a DM, like fin removal, tank hauling and gear washing, but when combined present a good picture of a diver's physical abilities.

 

[TMHeimer]

If people want some true, real life fitness and stamina tests, perhaps PADI should consider skills like a 200 meter tank haul where candidates have to move 50 tanks from point A to Point B 200 meters away.

The PADI swim skills are on the easy side, but adequate to weed out candidates that lack some basic fitness skills. These skills may not have direct applications to being a DM, like fin removal, tank hauling and gear washing, but when combined present a good picture of a diver's physical abilities.

Yes, I would agree that the tests are adequate to weed people out. I suppose you could change them a number of ways and still achieve this. All kidding aside, your tbought about more practical other tests may have some merit. Obviously not hauling tanks, but other stuff a DM may be doing--boat proceedures, etc. This stuff is covered in the books, though. There may be some things on which testing may be of value. I like practical stuff.

 

[TSandM]

Funny, I didn't really think the swim tests in my DM class were about swimming. I thought they were about showing you had enough strength and stamina to assist people in general. I like having a swim test much better than having to run or stair climb to show fitness, because swimming is easier on the joints.

After hauling 7 people's worth of gear back and forth for five days for our class last week, I agree that a tank-moving stamina test would be a good one

 

[Thalassamania]

I think that they should be tested and retested at every level. I think that all staff at at leadership programs should be required to perform them along with the candidates and that any staff unable to do so should go home immediately.

 

[DBailey]

Personally, I think the tests are ok, but they need to get rid of the 12 point system. I had a DMC that got a 5 in the tread and a 5 in the tow. The DMC only had to finish the other two tests without regard to time for one point each.

Each stamina test should be you must do it in X minutes and Y seconds or less to pass.

 

[TMHeimer]

Personally, I think the tests are ok, but they need to get rid of the 12 point system. I had a DMC that got a 5 in the tread and a 5 in the tow. The DMC only had to finish the other two tests without regard to time for one point each.

Each stamina test should be you must do it in X minutes and Y seconds or less to pass.

That may be a good idea. You would figure that if a particular test was deemed important enough to include then you should be required to score a passing grade on it. Or at least a "3", whatever.

 

[Quero]

I would imagine everything (especially the float) would be somewhat easier buoyancy-wise in salt water.

Yes, the float is easier in salt water, but the swims and the tow are slightly harder, in my experience. I have DMTs swim around the boat 8 times for the 400, and there is always some tide, even if small, that adds to the fatigue. The 800 means picking a destination from shore that's about 400 meters away and doing an out-and-back snorkel. Generally, DMTs don't go perfectly straight when doing this (unless they think to wear a compass), so there is added distance/time that makes it more challenging. And for the tow, I usually have the DMT tow me back to the boat, and I do what a victim usually does to make it realistic--I lift my head (creates drag), or let myself turn face-down rather than working to stay on my back (creates task loading). One of my DMTs had an awful time with the 400 when little stingers near the surface of the water got to be a bother. So doing it in the ocean doesn't always mean making it easier, even in confined water conditions.

Gawd... I can't believe this thread was resurrected after a year & I got sucked into it.

Me too. I've been resisting, but in the end succumbed!

 

[k ellis]

the swim is an important part of Open water and had it not been an option between the mask fins and snorkel or the swim I would not be diving today. When I started I could not swim even when I could touch the bottom. I could however snorkel.

In my quest for diving I unexpectedly picked up a love of the water and decided to take it a step further and learn to swim of which I am still no strong swimmer (I can swim all day but record breaker I am not)

My point on this is for the open water you should encourage people to be good swimmers but dont assume they wont learn on their own. For the Dive master course it is one of my week points earning me the least amount of points.

I think before someone automaticly shuts someone out for being an under achiever (Not a non achiever just under achiever) people should allow them the respect of working on their skills and not just being told simply if you cant swim dont apply. If they dont pass the current requirements then work with them so long as they are able to at least hit somewhere in the park (Again like me a swimmer I am but no power swimmer for time).

I say the requirements that are currently in use are excellent because they attract potential candidates not elite candidates.

 

[k ellis]

the swim is an important part of Open water and had it not been an option between the mask fins and snorkel or the swim I would not be diving today. When I started I could not swim even when I could touch the bottom. I could however snorkel.

In my quest for diving I unexpectedly picked up a love of the water and decided to take it a step further and learn to swim of which I am still no strong swimmer (I can swim all day but record breaker I am not)

My point on this is for the open water you should encourage people to be good swimmers but dont assume they wont learn on their own. For the Dive master course it is one of my week points earning me the least amount of points.

I think before someone automaticly shuts someone out for being an under achiever (Not a non achiever just under achiever) people should allow them the respect of working on their skills and not just being told simply if you cant swim dont apply. If they dont pass the current requirements then work with them so long as they are able to at least hit somewhere in the park (Again like me a swimmer I am but no power swimmer for time).

I say the requirements that are currently in use are excellent because they attract potential candidates not elite candidates.

Dang it LOL just caught that too!