Change the Stamina Tests

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In my Honest opinion, the swim test should be shorter and quicker. im not swimming 400 yards to rescue someone....Period! Sounds to me like im pulling anchor and doing a live boat rescue. If from shore, my mask and fins are going on. I think these tests are all nessecary, but only at the DM level. AI's, and Instructors shouldnt be far enough away from their students to have to worry about it.
 
In my Honest opinion, the swim test should be shorter and quicker. im not swimming 400 yards to rescue someone....Period! Sounds to me like im pulling anchor and doing a live boat rescue. If from shore, my mask and fins are going on. I think these tests are all nessecary, but only at the DM level. AI's, and Instructors shouldnt be far enough away from their students to have to worry about it.

What about swimming 200 yards to do a rescue .... but then you have to swim back and towing someone this time.
 
The tests as given demonstrate nothing of value precisely because they are happening in a pool - which is effectively ideal conditions.

Put the swims in OW, with moderate chop and some current. Then at least they're related to what a DM would be doing when such swims become necessary
 
The tests as given demonstrate nothing of value precisely because they are happening in a pool - which is effectively ideal conditions.

Put the swims in OW, with moderate chop and some current. Then at least they're related to what a DM would be doing when such swims become necessary

Agree completely. Unfortunately without a 7 mil wetsuit that limits classes to 1 or 2 months a year here, and aside from the Tow, no wetsuits allowed.
 
What about swimming 200 yards to do a rescue .... but then you have to swim back and towing someone this time.

I'm not doing it. That's one of my big points--It's fine to swim out, even 400 yards, but who's good enough to tow someone back without fins?
 
In my Honest opinion, the swim test should be shorter and quicker. im not swimming 400 yards to rescue someone....Period! Sounds to me like im pulling anchor and doing a live boat rescue. If from shore, my mask and fins are going on. I think these tests are all nessecary, but only at the DM level. AI's, and Instructors shouldnt be far enough away from their students to have to worry about it.


Yes, use the boat or get the fins on. And what a great idea--a required shorter, quicker swim test. Very practical. I guess there's a slim chance you would actually do this for a rescue. I should've suggested that in my OP instead of eliminating the 400 completely, but I was too busy whining.
 
Agree completely. Unfortunately without a 7 mil wetsuit that limits classes to 1 or 2 months a year here, and aside from the Tow, no wetsuits allowed.

And considering that divers wear wet suits in even the most agreeable of locations (with a few rare examples of individuals choosing against the norm) that is yet another point against the utility of the tests.
 
And considering that divers wear wet suits in even the most agreeable of locations (with a few rare examples of individuals choosing against the norm) that is yet another point against the utility of the tests.

When the ocean at our house cooled last Oct. I actually considered training for the swim in my 7 mil in lieu of driving the 100 miles to the pool. What folly that would've been.
 
He was the record holder at our university in the 1600 I believe. My memory on his exact time is foggy, its been over 10 years ago. Time might have been 4:30 his advantage was how efficient his stroke was. I do remember he had enough time to do 2 tests in the allotted time because I asked if he would swim mine since he was already done. It was fast but effort wise he looked like he was swimming a warm up. I had never seen anything like it. I taught an OW class of swim team members a couple years ago and none of them swam like he did.
Ber
:no:

I have rarely run into anybody that swims 450 yards in just over 4 minutes, including college swim team members. IMHO, only the best college/Olympic 400 freestyle swimmers could swim 450 yards in 4:01-4:14, which is what I consider just over 4 minutes.

I was too slow to get a college scholarship in swimming. My best competitive stroke was breaststroke; I placed 9th or 10th in the 100 meter Breast at the Colorado State AAU Championships shortly after my 17th b-day (perhaps if I had done more than 2.5 months training per year). Shortly before my 18th b-day I "trained" a couple weeks and won the 50, 100 and 200 yard Free's in South Eastern Colorado's AAU Valley Championships; all of them qualify as flukes.

In the 100, I had a perfect start (read false start), three perfect flip turns (old school pike!) and won by two body lengths (probably 'cause the others all knew I false started and hesitated on the blocks). My time was ~1:00. My 200 time was probably around 2:15 (the favorite with 8 second better time in prelims broke his foot on a flip turn - finished second, but got a scholarship). A 400 yard free in under 4 minutes as a serious training 17 year old will result in a college scholarship. 450 yards in just over 4 minutes is in the realm of the Olympic Finals 400 swimmers.

In yards, the PADI requirement for 5 points is "less than 6 minutes." That is averaging just under 1:30 per 100 yards. This winter I "trained" for less than 10 days and managed ~5:55. That was my first swim training since that 2 week "wind sprint" training over 32 years ago. I am not trying to toot my own horn; I am trying to show how easy PADI is on DM's. I was not a good enough swimmer to get a college scholarship, have done no swim training for over 30 years and even on vacation at 7,200 feet above my residential elevation for the past 20 years (sea level - Los Alamos, NM) a 5 on the 400 only took 2 weeks of training.

450 yards in under 10 minutes sounds like a "reasonable bar" to me! Wish PADI would require similar, but that would seriously impact corporate and dive shop bottom lines. :shakehead:
 
I haven't bothered to read all the thread, sorry - to be honest most changes that people recommend are often very specific to their own circumstances and poorly justified. It's kinda tough to make them applicable to a worldwide training organisation like PADI, particularly when you get resorts that don't have the same facilities and opportunities as dive shops etc.

Anyway, didn't really want to get in to that discussion!!!

PADI are changing the DM course this year, the new course is due for release Q3 - though in reality I suspect that will slip back into 2011 sometime. I've had some discussions with the PADI-AP about how the course could be revised and improved.

If anyone is really passionate about the DM course, then get in touch with your regional manager and/or your instructor development rep and make sure that PADI hear your thoughts.
 
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