Change the Stamina Tests

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If a person floats without effort, the tread is not an issue; perhaps all students should be weighted for neutral for all the non-scuba gear stamina skills.

Every portion of the DM exam should be hard enough that it is nearly too hard for some of the Graduates; damn, I just barely passed that section. There should be Candidates failing and they should be failing because of ALL the portions; some fail because of stamina, some fail because of physics, some fail because of coordination, etc.
 
halemanō;5219820:
If a person floats without effort, the tread is not an issue; perhaps all students should be weighted for neutral for all the non-scuba gear stamina skills.

Every portion of the DM exam should be hard enough that it is nearly too hard for some of the Graduates; damn, I just barely passed that section. There should be Candidates failing and they should be failing because of ALL the portions; some fail because of stamina, some fail because of physics, some fail because of coordination, etc.

This all makes sense to me. Some good input from all-keep 'em coming. Anyone have views on how I would change the 800, 100 and float? What do you guys think of my suggestions specifically?
 
I'm of the opinion that dive professionals should be strong swimmers. I'd even be in favor of DMs and instructors being required to pass a lifesaving course (and stay current with it). Teaching people to dive involves putting people in and around water that aren't necessarily comfortable in it. As a professional, we should be able to perform a rescue in full scuba gear, snorkeling gear or unaided.
 
I'm of the opinion that dive professionals should be strong swimmers. ...As a professional, we should be able to perform a rescue in full scuba gear, snorkeling gear or unaided.

I agree; a dive professional should be reasonably competent to effect a rescue regardless of equipment considerations.

The whole idea of teaching non-swimmers scuba diving is preposterous imo. I'm aware that times have changed. Today's divers have much better buoyancy systems and more dependable equipment than we had 45 years ago. Experience has also shown me that anything mechanical can malfunction (and sometimes does). Placing the safety of a diver solely in the hands of technological parachutes without redundancy can be foolhardy, but some agencies allow it. Go figure. :confused:
 
Interesting point. Kind of like everyone should know CPR. But I don't know if lifeguard skills should be part of a scuba course. Maybe. But I guess fishermen and other water sports people should learn these too?
While it would be nice if fishermen, and everyone else around water learned such techniques, it's not practical. But I'd at least like to hold the professionals (DMs, captains, etc.) to a higher standard.
 
In respect to lifeguarding skills... I've never been trained as a lifeguard, but one of my current Rescue students is a lifeguard trainer from Switzerland. We both feel we're gaining a lot of insight from one another in comparing training and skills required of professionals.

He says he asks his trainees not only to tread water with their hands out of the water, but to hold a heavy ball at the same time--in addition, they have to have the whole lower arm, up to the elbows, out of the water. This is to enable them to maintain an unconscious victim's head above waves during a rescue.
Excellent and responsible idea for pros to learn each other's activity's techniques. In your scenario proper buoyancy with BCD and pocket mask to protect airway would probably be the rescue diver's choice.

Yes, of course you are right. My student is finding learning how to do in-water rescue breathing very enlightening. It's a completely different skill-set for him even though he is an expert rescuer. The rest of it is a piece of cake for him!
 
I just refreshed my American Red Cross Lifeguard Training Course last Friday and had several discussions with the instructor about the practicality of lifeguard skills (and efficient use of equipment, including the backboard) in a diving environment.

The primary reason for treading water with your hands out of the water is to show that you can tread water while preoccupied with some other duty, like backboarding a head/neck victim, unresponsive diver at surface, etc. We did it for 1 minute holding a 10 pound weight out of the water, which washed out several students and forced much of the class to repeat the skill.

After returning a diving victim to the boat and removing gear it would be of tremendous assistance to any primary rescuer to have a backboard available and at least one other person available that can use it proficiently, not to mention have a selection of cervical collars.

If I owned a dive op, I'd do monthly in-services and include as much lifeguarding fundamentals as my crew could stomach. Much of it can be derived directly from the new Red Cross Lifeguarding manual available at most local chapters.
 
I'm of the opinion that dive professionals should be strong swimmers. I'd even be in favor of DMs and instructors being required to pass a lifesaving course (and stay current with it). Teaching people to dive involves putting people in and around water that aren't necessarily comfortable in it. As a professional, we should be able to perform a rescue in full scuba gear, snorkeling gear or unaided.

Point taken. It's crazy amazing that some folks who are uncomfortable in water just jump in and take up scuba. It's the last thing I'd do. But you're right, that's the way it is today. Re the lifesaving course--good idea, but I doubt it will ever happen. For one, who pays for it? And if a refresher is required wouldn't it be logical to first require a refresher in scuba rescue and demonstration skills? Who pays for that? I honestly can't see dive pros, especially seasoned instructors ever going for that. We already have to refresh EFR every 2 years. My refresher cost $90. I watched a video, we chatted some in class and did the dummy work. I skim over 4 pages of the EFR manual daily, so I basically paid the $ for 5 mins. with the dummy. My original course (in a different country-New Jersey) was no more thorough than the refresher. No work at all with bandaging. In fact, my DMC instructor took the EFR Instructor course only because she got tired of renewing each year and paying for it. Another question is if dive pros are required to do a lifesaving course should lifeguards be required to take a rescue diver course? I know that's impractical as they would first need an OW course and equipment. But still, it can be a matter of money vs. the chances of a diver actually needing lifeguard skills for the one in a million chance he might have to rescue someone in a non-dive situation with no lifeguards around. To get way far afield, one would save hundreds more by giving all one's money to charity and joining the Peace Corps. I'm not being critical, as I agree that any safety course is good and one should be commended for taking it. Just looking at it practically.
 
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Not sure I understand your EFR story. AFAIK, here and in the rest of the USA, the only renewal costs to continuing as a PADI Teaching Status OWSI are membership and insurance. If you are covered on a shop insurance policy then membership is all that's required. Is a DM in Canada required to renew EFR to maintain Active DM status? Not saying renewed EFR for Instructors and DM's isn't a good idea, just wondering who it's required for.

If someone with an EFR Instructor rating never even helps teach an EFR class, how long do they stay a certified EFR Instructor? If an EFR Instructor rating can expire due to lack of use, would an MSDT rating expire due to an EFR Instructor rating expiring?
 
Another question is if dive pros are required to do a lifesaving course should lifeguards be required to take a rescue diver course? I know that's impractical as they would first need an OW course and equipment. But still, it can be a matter of money vs. the chances of a diver actually needing lifeguard skills for the one in a million chance he might have to rescue someone in a non-dive situation with no lifeguards around. To get way far afield, one would save hundreds more by giving all one's money to charity and joining the Peace Corps. I'm not being critical, as I agree that any safety course is good and one should be commended for taking it. Just looking at it practically.

Man up, please. :shakehead:
 
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