Master.........Really?

[k ellis]

You know this has been an ongoing and will a forever more debate without end but what it all boils down to is titles are really nothing more then recognition. If a person chooses not to recognize a persons title then no matter what it is its worthless.

Take for example doctors. They goto school for years and years to earn their degree and titles of M.D. or which ever specialty they choose. Its a title of honor and one that denotes they have passed all the requirements and they earned their prospective place in the medical field. It denotes that they are proficient and trustworthy to take responsiblity for others health. But how many people do you know have filed malpractice suits on them because they had an allergic reaction to meds that really resulted in little more then discomfort for a few days? How many doctors do you know have been arrested for sexual misconduct with patients? The title is a blanket title for all in their particular specialty but it does not mean they will be the best of the best. Many will fall short and eventually loose their license to practice.

You look law enforcement. When you hear the word officer you expect the best of the best and the most honest and dedicated man on the planet who does his job without bias. We all know that this is often not the case. We instead end up with people who do corrupt things and even illegal activities and use the badge as a shield.

When you look at city officials like mayors you expect that they were chosen for their ability to lead and lead a city into the future. You expect them to provide a safe attractive city to live in and attract buisness. We all know where politics goes though right?

Diving titles are nothing more then titles that say you have met the qualifications. Their are MSDTs out there that have been banned from diving operations out there because they chose to ignore the dive profiles set forth by the dive op. I have seen them personaly go beyond safe diving and have to go into deco stops which throws the whole boat schedule into turmoil and in fact is not fair to the other divers who have paid to have a great dive but now must either cut the dive short or waste time waiting on the guy to finaly be able to surface safely.

I have seen dive masters who thought the world rose and set on their backs and yet I am surprised they could open the wrapper on a mcdonalds hamburger in a timely manner.

you really want to impress someone the titles show you have been there and done that but your actions say you go there all the time and you do it regularly. I am a master diver and I choose the new diver to dive with every time simply because they most often tend to pay attention to you and what your doing. They tend to listen to advice and not try to tell you how God made the earth.

Titles are something one earns but it is the lesser of the 2 things that make a diver who he is among his pears. The other thing he must earn and often times is most sought by his pears is his respect. If you cant earn the respect of your fellow divers they dont care what your title is they will view you as an idiot!

 

[k ellis]

All it means is that I can talk about a lot of places I have been diving. How many prospective divers would take a year, diving every day, spending $20K to become a "master diver"

Holey cow mine was maybe 1 thousand if that. Sheeeesh where did you go to pay that?

 

[LenC]

The experience in most fields is that replacing rules and guidelines with experience leads to less than optimal results with some frequency. That's why pilots have checklists and why physicians are starting to implement them as well. Experience is important for dealing with anything well out of the ordinary, but for the most part, it's far better for even the experts to follow a manual.

I guess that depends upon who writes the manual. On more than one occassion I have had to inform students that what they read in the manual was flat wrong. I recall watching a power point from one agency (which I shall not name) on underwater photography. They showed an example of a photographer carefully focusing in on his subject, while kneeling on the coral. So while I agree with you in theory, in practice it might be an issue.

 

[Bubbledup]

When I hear any title that begins with "Master" I envision a seasoned veteran of his/her chosen field, educated and experienced.

The difference between a master electrician and a journeyman for example is usually years and thousands of hours of work plus education. Same thing for just about any trade.

I can see the need for different levels of certification in diving but I am starting to question the names they use. If I were to not have any knowledge of diving and someone were to tell me they were a "Master Diver" immediately, I would envision someone with years of diving experience and training, not someone who may have a year or two, or less under his/her belt and a couple of classes or passed a course after they got 50 dives.

This of course is my opinion. It is what I believe John and Jane Q Public think. As I said, the need for different levels is evident but the names really should be more in line with what you really are. Advanced open water diver. But master diver before you are an instructor? Don't think so. This is my perception.

I am starting to think this is more about marketing than anything.

How about AOW Level 1, 2 & 3 instead?

Again, my opinion. I don't think someone with a couple of classes and 50 dives should bear the title of "Master Diver". How about a new name?

The problem really is the lack of discipline within the industry with regard to training. Some professional thought up a label, which you get attached to you if you pay some money. That's not to say that training isn't valuable; it is. You always learn something. I've been diving for 48 years, and I'm still learning. However, I question whether or not the term Master Diver has any real meaning other than that the person has some experience and passed a course.

 

[Bubbledup]

Well said.

 

[LenC]

The problem really is the lack of discipline within the industry with regard to training. Some professional thought up a label, which you get attached to you if you pay some money. That's not to say that training isn't valuable; it is. You always learn something. I've been diving for 48 years, and I'm still learning. However, I question whether or not the term Master Diver has any real meaning other than that the person has some experience and passed a course.

I agree. I would add though that the primary goal of the industry is to make money. We can all argue about which agency is best, but they are all there to sell training. I recall a few years ago listening to an IT talk about juggling classes to maximize the number of students processed in a single weekend. All within standards but I was unconvinced that any of the students were getting the training they paid for. I have seen people with advanced diver cards who had never been in the water without an instructor and expected to held by the hand. Ultimately, I consider it the responsibility of the individual instructor to train divers. Either you're a diver or you're not. The rest of it is fluff.

 

[theduckguru]

I agree. I would add though that the primary goal of the industry is to make money. We can all argue about which agency is best, but they are all there to sell training. I recall a few years ago listening to an IT talk about juggling classes to maximize the number of students processed in a single weekend. All within standards but I was unconvinced that any of the students were getting the training they paid for. I have seen people with advanced diver cards who had never been in the water without an instructor and expected to held by the hand. Ultimately, I consider it the responsibility of the individual instructor to train divers. Either you're a diver or you're not. The rest of it is fluff.

I've wondered if a not for profit dive agency would be beneficial to diving.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I've wondered if a not for profit dive agency would be beneficial to diving.

There are several out there. They have done little to significant impact the training market space.

 

[LenC]

I've wondered if a not for profit dive agency would be beneficial to diving.

I doubt it. Making money is not a bad thing. If it weren't for the profit motive, most if not all of the equipment we use would be unavailable to all but the military or commercial operations. The agencies provide a very important service that I don't think non-profits can match. They bring people to the sport. My point was that the real training doesn't come from the agency, it comes from the instructor.

Most people will never be more than the occassional vacation diver. That is just fine. They help fund the rest of us who see diving as a life style. They keep the dive shops operational and the manufacturers in business. If that means we play a little loose with descriptors, like Master Diver, then so be it.

 

[Zippsy]

LenC scores a bullseye.