do you ever notice negativity between dive shops?

[redacted]

Why do you look at it as "punishing internet buyers" as opposed to "rewarding loyal customers"?

On one hand we want extra service and more value from the LDS but you also want them to give the same to folks who side step the LDS and not do business with them? I think it is unfair to put the entire burden on the LDS. If am going to spend $$ with the LDS, I'd like to see that they would treat me better than the person who doesn't. There has to be some perks that other people who don't support my LDS don't get.

Many other industries reward loyal customers with few perks to encourage these clients to continue to do business with them. The airlines are one example. Since I do lots of travel (around 150 - 200K miles a year), I am very careful on who I travel with for me to keep earning miles and thus I am flying either of two airline, Swiss/Lufthansa or Emirates.

I think it is pretty clear.

Rewarding your (loyal?) customers is giving them a discount and I think that would be good business. That would mean that any other customer would be paying the regular price. But what we are talking about here is charging internet (Leisurepro) customers more than any other customer or simply refusing service. That is not a reward but a punishment. I don't think I am reading this wrong.

I don't want any extra service from an LDS I just want good value at a competitive price.

 

[peterbj7]

It is OK. I did not expect you to proudly advertise which shop is yours in this case. But it does tell me that you do understand how your position of punishing internet buyers might not really be an asset if you are trying to run a dive shop and appeal to customers.

Sorry, I did post a reply, but it seems to have vanished in the ether. Briefly, I closed my business (Protech, a technical dive center) some time ago. When it was open I did work on all gear no matter what its origins (unless I had good reason to believe it was stolen), and very occasionally was asked to assemble new gear. I've always been wary of that, as I know from experience how shoddy much new gear is out-of-the-box, and I don't want to be held responsible for something that I didn't do but which was inherent in the new gear. So I always charged enough to be able to do the entire job from first principles, which was more than if the gear was already working when it arrived in my shop. If I had sold the new gear then I would have a responsibility for it, which would (hopefully) have been covered by the sales profit.

My dive center won't be listed for two reasons. Firstly it's now closed, but secondly it wasn't listed anyway because I didn't want to pay for that privilege. Several other dive centers aren't listed for the same reason.

As to doing business on the internet, I have never done such business. I had a website and used email, of course, but that's all.

My business was very successful and highly profitable for a number of years. It was closed for reasons unrelated to profits.

 

[BoltSnap]

It would be silly and self defeating for a dive shop to refuse service for equipment that was bought somewhere else (LP or anyone else). Whenever somebody came to our store with equipment that either needed service or need to be put together, we charged them the full published rates but we never turned them away. When a client buys their equipment from us, we put it together and do full check before handing it over to them for no charge. We even invite them to try everything in our pool before they go diving in the ocean all for free no problem.

For the ones that buy online or from other dive stores, we do our best to serve them (for a fee) in the hope that we would show them value in buying form us in the future. What always irked us was when some folks come in and try everything and get full information from us about what they should buy and then they buy it online. They came in already planning to buy online but they needed to check the size and pick what they wanted to buy. Some of these folks would actually spend hours with my staff. What was even worse was when these people would come back later with the equipment they bought online and ask us to help them with putting it together and some even had the nuts to ask to jump in our pool to try everything out. We really had to exercise great self restraint and not throw them out the store but we did what they needed done for a premium.

At the end, we don't turn anyone away but some may have to pay more and some would pay little less.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

It would be silly and self defeating for a dive shop to refuse service for equipment that was bought somewhere else (LP or anyone else).

Man you would be suprised that a lot of shops do this. It is wrong but usually ends in the demise of the shop.

What always irked us was when some folks come in and try everything and get full information from us about what they should buy and then they buy it online.

That is just plane wrong from the divers end. It is a fact that things are cheaper online but when you add up the total cost of having a shop that is "charging higher rate" or however you want to put it it might not be that cheap. A lot of shops are wanting to be more compeditive but some are just still stuck in the 90's when internet sales were not heard of leaving them charging double or even triple then what is on the net.

Costumer service goes a long way but a lot of divers wont pay 2x-3x the cost.

 

[Alexvizzio]

In Playa del Carmen, there´s a loads of dive centers that belong to really big chains of dive schools, specially in All-Inclusive resorts. Usually, we don´t badmouth about them because we are all friends and hang out together, even if we don´t work together...but, myself, I don´t like how they train their Instructors; they do it in a rush and almost instantly so the new Instructor pays for his training with months of work, helping the company to save money in wages. I know this is very unsafe but, we never, ever tell that to the costumer: The customer finds out by himself sooner or later.
At the marina where I work now (Marina Puerto Aventuras) there´s only two dive centers and, you won´t believe it: The other day, I almost pass out in front of the convenient store from an incumbent sickness and the guys from the other shop (my friends as well) came out running to help me, bought me a coke and took me home.
So, fortunately, I have never been exposed to this envy between diving schools here in Yucatán.

 

[Quero]

It is OK. I did not expect you to proudly advertise which shop is yours in this case. But it does tell me that you do understand how your position of punishing internet buyers might not really be an asset if you are trying to run a dive shop and appeal to customers.

It's impossible to tell who you're replying to (though since I don't sell gear at all and only service my own school stuff, the bolded part can't refer to me). I would doubt that it's only internet buyers who are "punished," but rather anybody at all who shows up with gear purchased elsewhere, even if it was just down the street at a shop that went out of business. I will also say that as a customer, I tend to see discounts as rewards to loyal customers rather than as punishments to walk-ins, even though the end result is the same, with one customer paying more than another. I imagine that in a parallel way that a business owner might have a negative "attitude" s/he passes on, a customer may come to the transaction with a reciprocal negative attitude always expecting shop keepers to treat him/her unfairly (I've had one or two of these types come through).

It's common to have a two-tier pricing policy in all kinds of situations--kids going to state-supported universities in their home states pay less than out-of-state students, in Hawaii many businesses have "kamaina" discounted rates for locals, ATM users are assessed different fees according to their relationship with the financial institution that owns a particular machine, mobile telephone access fees vary according to whether you're roaming or home, pharmaceutical companies arbitrarily give bigger AWP discounts to chain stores than to independent pharmacies for prescription drugs (presumably because they think the chains will give them volume business), supermarkets routinely issue preferred customer cards that give discounts not enjoyed by those who don't have the cards, and so on. All of these two-tiered pricing systems reward a particular customer base, and the mere existence of a two-tier pricing policy shouldn't necessarily be seen as "punishment" of those who pay the higher price.

 

[k ellis]

Costumer service goes a long way but a lot of divers wont pay 2x-3x the cost.

Im one who wont

 

[soltari675]

This is an interesting thread because just today I was talking to a couple dive shops in NYC. One of the shops asked where I normally dive. I told the guy in Missouri, however I will be here in NYC during the summers for a while and soon permanently for a few years. So I wanted contacts here in NYC for when I am here. He asked me where I would do my training, should I decide to do more( and I will), and I said probably in Missouri where I started. I was looking for dive buddies, tank rentals, weights, and repairs of needed. Maybe some gear sales if I need something. But I just wanted to network and meet divers. He refused to talk to me after that. He said unless I changed dive shops to his, he didn't have time to talk to me. Said not to come back until I changed my mind. He was incredibly rude and MUCH different than the dive shop at home in Missouri. At home, the instructors are incredibly nice. If they don't have something, they'll get it. If I have a question, it's answered. And they are always happy and friendly there.

Thankfully the second shop was a little better. He wasn't warm and welcoming at home, but he did answer questions and say I was welcome to come see them when I get here in the summer.

 

[mdb]

soltari675:

Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience with a NYC dive shop. They should have just welcomed you to the store and have been glad to see a potential customer. There are not that many dive retailers in Manhattan. One such retailer is pretty infamous as a negative experience. The other dive retailers may be a bit NYC brusque but, generally, helpful and Informed.

A good place for some positive NYC input is @:
Dive NY - ScubaBoard

The dive NY divers are active and friendly.

Enjoy your NE diving, lots to do and many good people to do it with.

 

[soltari675]

Thanks a bunch mdb. I will definitely chat to them in the Dive NY side. It looks like there would be really great diving out here. Just need to find the divers that don't mind me tagging along