La Ceiba Violence

[sololady]

Absolutely, and not really the improvements I was thinking about. To their credit, not all the islanders are just going to just stand back and watch.

 

[DandyDon]

Almost makes me wish I was on that boat with Don and the old lady some 5 years ago...

I doubt it. Not nearly as interesting as you might think. I was asked to sponsor a trip after having done a couple before in Singles Forum, and I did so - declining to accept commissions and passing the 20% savings on to the group members . Today's rules did not exist there then or she would not have been allowed in it or on the trip, but she was. Hell, I was all welcome aboard in my nativity about how group joiners should be group supporters. Still, not much to see even then. This is the first time I recall her attacking me in public; some people just aren't that open, acting as observers only in plain sight, working more in less public ways. I dunno? Had you been on that over crowded boat or other end of the evening room you may well have heard what I never did, or you might have received the subsequent PMs and emails I didn't, but honestly I never knew what her grudge was. Just suffered the effects. Must be a hard vendetta to show up now tho, huh?

Funny thing, I've seen her little personal group try to revive Singles Forum and Email group trips since, to no avail. Most people in Singles don't really want to stay that way long enough to organize a trip, the few who might saw a worse case of No Good Intentions Go Unpunished, and when recognizable members of that group try to float an idea - people may look at their posting history. :shocked2:

I believe the goes back that fahttp://www.scubaboard.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5209445r here on SCUBABoard.

Sure it does, for those qualified to see results in that forum, but again - not much to see. The trip was really quite successful but I did make some mistakes for which I was severely persecuted. I remember two...

My oops dive, as listed in my profile, which became the focus of the post trip persecution, after avoiding any honest communications while then and there;

And I made one (1) crack about the adipose ratio on the boat, which I'm sure locals often reference in us traveling Americans - but the wind changed and it was heard by more than the one person I was talking to.​

With those two, it was easy to embellish additionally of course. I watched her account for months, seeing that she never logged in officially, then stopped looking over my shoulder finally.

But now, half a decade later, she wants to reopen the case. Your guess as to why is as good as mine. A desire to look important?

​

So you Post-Thankers make what you will of that. Hell, I was all set to Thank the post until I saw the turn on me, realized who I was being attacked by, and considered the sources for their poor record. There's probly some truth mixed in there as there often is in such attempts.

Okay, so the 2009 Honduran constitutional crisis was not a military coup like in 1963 and the quick resolution was much easier on the country than the 18 year string of uniformed governments that followed back then, and thank goodness the real problems didn't significantly migrate to the Bay Islands. Whatever you chose to call that non-coup that the world leaders called 2009 Honduran coup d'état it was certainly different than how we handle our accused leaders in this country - where we try them in court. I am sorry that business and people on Roatan had to suffer while some potential visitors wondered who and what to believe.

Okay, so bonairefans wasn't in as direct transit as some others who change planes and maybe overnight on the mainland on the way to Roatan. What he did witness was unnerving I am sure, enough that anyone wanting to spend some time on the mainland and not under direct protection of the prominent church like the above mentioned old lady may well want to travel carefully in their mainland journey. I don't run nor heal as fast as I once did, don't feel as invincible as I did even 5 years ago, so I'd want to be careful.

And my apologies for my hijack previously in this month old thread as my comparisons of planning to be more on guard while traveling the jungle and the Merida side of the Yucatan peninsula closer to some drug war violence of recent years was intended only to illustrate that yeah, as one's travels extend away from the cruise docks and gated resorts it's good to be more mindful that one is not in Kansas anymore, Todo.

 

[RTBDiver]

Absolutely, and not really the improvements I was thinking about. To their credit, not all the islanders are just going to just stand back and watch.

So please explain, maybe in a private message so as not to hijack this anymore, but please, just what improvements are you talking about. A very large percentage of development and changes are not being done by expats as you would seem to suggest. As far as Islanders standing back and watching. How much time have you really spent discussing this type of thing with the general island population? Remember, No expat could have done any development or improvinements at all if there were not a Honduran to sell land, lease land or help out in other ways.

 

[sololady]

More of the same Don.

I went to go see what you dared say about your "oops" dive. Yup, your deepest at 182. I see you didn't mention that you were on Nitrox or that if the course director hadn't been right there with us and on air to go snatch you up, you would be a permanent resident of Utila in the trench. You went down much too fast for me or the others to grab you. You were so narced you had no idea what you were doing.

Your mention of the church is interesting. You must have forgotten that I always travel alone and under no one's protection. In fact, it was your insistence that I travel only under your guidance that led to your "first rodeo" quip.

And as for it being half a decade ago, as of yet I have no better example of what not to do while diving.

 

[Sloeber]

In an attempt to steer this thread back on topic...

Some of you may have recently read my La Ceiba trip report. I did leave out a small detail that might be worth noting in this thread.

We were staying at Omega Tours lodge for a couple nights which is a few miles up into the mountains outside of La Ceiba. One evening while enjoying the companying of a few guests, the bartender, and the lodge owner, a series of gun shots went off. I'm no gun expert but they sounded like an automatic rifle of some sort. I'd guess in the neighborhood of 10-12 shots were fired. It didn't sound like they were terribly close, but obviously close enough to hear. If you are like me just being capable of hearing a dozen shots from a rifle means its too close.

I asked the lodge owner if we were in any danger. He paused before answering, clearly looking for the right way to word his answer. "Uhmmm, no, my security guards are always on duty." I didn't dig any deeper for an answer as the answer was clearly "yes" even if Udo didn't want to tell me so. I mean, let's be serious here... I just heard a dozen shots from a rifle and the lodge security guard carries a machete. Ever hear that saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight?" Yeah...

Anyway, as I noted in my trip report I wouldn't hesitate to return to Omega (actually I plan on it), so it wasn't enough to scare me away, but as has been said before in this thread, "you aren't in Kansas anymore" also applies.

Is three violence in La Ceiba? Most certainly. Back home in Illinois I have never seen our gas pumps guarded by an attack shotgun as I did in La Ceiba.

The same gas station has gun turrets set up on the corners of their property. They are clearly prepared to defend their business investment.

As a tourist passing through I never had the feeling that I was personally in danger, however. Locals viewed me as tourist not a threat or an opportunity. In contrast, in Jamaica I can't help but feel like many locals are looking at me curious what they could steal from me after they knock me to the ground.

 

[DandyDon]

Well, there's no statute of limitations on screw ups I guess. The old lady (younger than me actually) did not analyze my back tank nor my pony, but facts are never of much importance with stalkers. For the record, no one has ever had to go snatch me, again - not that fact matter with some.

SB Tos prohibits stalking but that doesn't seem to be enforced. Not my only stalker to be sure, but they all have one other thing in common.

Whatever. At least I'm aware this one is back. Did you know that Private Messages aren't always kept so, even deleted...?

 

[RTBDiver]

Did you know that Private Messages aren't always kept so, even deleted...?

For some reason this poster keeps ignoring my posts simply asking for clarification on their previous post in this thread. Sucks when people post inaccurate info as if its fact and then ignore those asking for some type of qualification.

 

[DandyDon]

For some reason this poster keeps ignoring my posts simply asking for clarification on their previous post in this thread. Sucks when people post inaccurate info as if its fact and then ignore those asking for some type of qualification.

I noticed that, and your question were on topic ~ always refreshing.

 

[sololady]

My thinking is that we are here on Scuba Board, we should chat SCUBA.

RTBDiver and many others here and I are all common buds on other forums where these and many other issues are openly discussed among those of us who are no longer just tourists. Nothing to do with the diving. All to do with ego.

I believe it will be better for our dialog (not simply a mention) about expat improvements to be restricted to those forums.

Happy bubbles!!

 

[Slamfire]

From the Wall Street Journal April 21, 2010:

Honduras's Removal of Manuel Zelaya Was No Coup

The U.S. Ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, complains that Mary O'Grady's coverage of his activities unfairly portrays the facts on the ground (Letters, April 14). His letter contains some assertions that are true and some that are relevant. Regrettably for Mr. Llorens, the true part is not very relevant and the relevant part is not remotely true.

Mr. Llorens is correct to say that the removal and deportation of former President Manuel Zelaya was condemned by the international community. He is also correct to maintain that summarily deporting Mr. Zelaya to Costa Rica was illegal. The relevant issue, however, is not the deportation, but whether stripping Mr. Zelaya of the presidency was illegal. It was not. The Honduran Supreme Court had ordered Mr. Zelaya's arrest beforehand, and the Honduran Congress voted to remove him—by a lopsided vote—immediately after the arrest.

Given that the Honduran Congress had an ample legal basis for removing Mr. Zelaya (to wit, it determined that Mr. Zelaya was attempting to seek another presidential term in violation of the constitution), and given that the Congress also followed the constitutional rules of succession in designating Roberto Micheletti to succeed him, Mr. Llorens is simply wrong to maintain that Mr. Zelaya's removal was a "coup d'etat" or to label the successor government "de facto." This is the only relevant part of the dispute.

In fact, Mr. Llorens has never disclosed any reputable analysis of Honduran law that might vindicate his assertions. If the legal adviser to the State Department has performed such an analysis, he is not eager to expose it to any scrutiny either. What the current administration and Mr. Llorens do have, however, is the intent to bully a desperately poor country until it can be coerced, er, persuaded, to see things their way. Nothing else could explain the zeal with which the U.S. cancelled the visas of Honduran judges and congressmen, all duly appointed or elected before the supposed "coup," for the sin of interpreting their own law in a manner that displeased the Obama administration and hindered the administration's efforts to abase itself to Hugo Chávez.

Mr. Llorens avers that he is working with the new Honduran administration of President Porfirio Lobo to relieve the "isolation" that the Obama administration, the Castro regime and Venezuela's Hugo Chávez engineered for Honduras. It sure sounds from this as if freezing aid to starving people and canceling visas of judges who refuse to take dictation may be about to pay off for Mr. Llorens. When that occurs, if it does, Mr. Llorens may save face in the striped-pants circuit, but his tenure in Honduras, and our government's treatment of the Honduran people, will remain, as they have been, shameful.

Miguel Estrada

Washington