Conflicted: Online v LDS

[Sas]

Here in the US some gear manufacturers are much more WWW friendly/price flexible friendly than others, so perhaps in some cases it's not local dealer greed only but manufactuer greed, so if a diver was careful choosing gear from certain consumer friendly gear manufactuers, it might allow the dealer to 'get real' with respect to competitive pricing.

Yea true. I don't even think some stores are aware of their rights in regards to what the distributor can ask and that's probably part of it. One store was complaining about other stores charging less than the allowed distributor price as it was 'illegal'. I told him that resale price maintenance was the illegal thing not the fact that some stores were not following RPM! He just wouldn't believe me (I focused on trade as well as anti-competitive practices at university so know a lot about the law in this area for Australia). I ended up emailing him a link to the ACCC (they monitor competition in Australia) where it specifies that RPM is illegal.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I've used some crappy regs. I feel that when you're using a crappy reg you know your using a crappy reg. When you are using a good to great reg, you almost forget you're using a reg and you can really focus on the experience. If you have a good experience, you're more apt to continue to dive. If you didn't because you felt like you were sucking air through a straw, you may not enjoy it as much. I don't think a top of the line reg is bad money no matter how you look at it.

@paddler3d: A substantial amount of money can be saved by going with a robust, middle-of-the-line reg. I agree with you that a poor reg can color the student's formative scuba experiences. Dive ops would do well to rent out good quality workhorse regs and keep them well-maintained/tuned. I'm assuming that's what the OP would be using during his class.

Please explain to me what kind of dives you could do with an XTX200 reg that you could not do with an XTX50 -- in a blind test I wonder if the OP could even tell the difference (I don't think I could). IMO, any extra money spent on the top of the line reg is wasted. The opportunity cost is that money could be better spent on other essential gear, advanced training, or dive vacations.

If reg performance is the primary concern, perhaps the OP would be best served learning how to service/adjust his own regs rather than splurging on the top of the line.

 

[gcbryan]

Saspotato...I'm curious...is the cost of living in Australia just that much higher, is it just imported items, or is it just somehow related to scuba and scuba shops?

 

[Sas]

Saspotato...I'm curious...is the cost of living in Australia just that much higher, is it just imported items, or is it just somehow related to scuba and scuba shops?

Yes and no, depends what it is. A lot of stuff is overpriced (electronics as well as scuba gear) as it is a small market but with the internet it's really changing that around. Like camera gear I can buy much cheaper online (half price) but it seems the local camera shops have not caught on to this. I don't feel any obligation personally to buy local stuff just to support local businesses but a lot of people still feel they need to support local business. But it has to change as most people are starting to catch on to overseas pricing. I love playing computer games for example, and I used to be able to buy all of my games online from the US without any hassle but they are starting to introduce region specific pricing to combat this. I can get around this easily by fooling the shop into thinking I am from the US but it is annoying nonetheless. I'm not sure if they can keep getting away with it.

 

[Rob9]

Yes I know I am into home cinema equipment and for my denon AVR 3808ci its about $1000-$1500 USD while here in Oz its $2800-$3500 AUD still a big difference. I would never get from from the US because I do not like using power conversion on an amp but the price difference annoys me a bit. Needless to say I haven't purchased the unit yet.

 

[Rob9]

@bubbletrubble I guess I have never been a middle of the line type person, I work very hard for my money and I guess I like to buy nice things, for a $100 USD difference I don't see a huge issue. I am fully aware that better equipment doesn't make a better diver but I am happy to go without and rent until I can afford the things I want. There are some top of the line products that shouldn't be used by a novice but I don't think that is the case with this reg and I did do the leg work and asked at my LDS.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@bubbletrubble I guess I have never been a middle of the line type person, I work very hard for my money and I guess I like to buy nice things, for a $100 USD difference I don't see a huge issue. I am fully aware that better equipment doesn't make a better diver but I am happy to go without and rent until I can afford the things I want. There are some top of the line products that shouldn't be used by a novice but I don't think that is the case with this reg and I did do the leg work and ask at my LDS.

@Rob9: Hey, you're free to do what you want with your money. I was just trying to give you what I believe to be good advice. I guess the people at your LDS were able to make a compelling argument for the XTX200 over the XTX50 (or some other middle-of-the-line reg). If you don't mind my asking, how did they justify the higher price? What value does the top of the line XTX200 bring over the XTX50? I'm not asking the question to be contentious at all. I really am curious, and I would like to hear the detailed reasoning.

Or perhaps I prefer to be just an average diver who settles for middle-of-the-line gear...

 

[Rob9]

@ Bubbletrubble, yes I appreciate your posts here as you have raised some very good points.

My LDS did not try an justify any price at all to me as it was through general conversation I was discussing the XTX200. I asked what reg a couple of the staff used and we had an interesting discussion on it, I was informed that it was a beautiful reg and one of the staff said she had been using an ATX20 but decided to upgrade and said she was very glad she did. It was from that, asking a couple of other people of whom I met at the store and research online I started looking at the XTX200 for myself. At a later date asking the staff at my LDS if the reg was also suited to someone like myself. I made the decision based on the information I had read, been told and on the rationale I would prefer spend the money and know that I got a great reg than potentially want to upgrade down the line. It is also nice to know there other experienced divers around here using the same thing. The XTX50 never popped up on my radar and I never ran a detailed comparison as I thought from the beginning I know I am going to be up for a lot of money so I will just take my time save and get what I consider to be the best. The full retail of the XTX200 at my LDS on my quote is $1595 AUD yet I can get it for around $600 AUD shipped from leisurepro, I am saving a lot of money if I purchase it from there, why wouldn't I get the best.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@ Bubbletrubble, yes I appreciate your posts here as you have raised some very good points.

My LDS did not try an justify any price at all to me as it was through general conversation I was discussing the XTX200. I asked what reg a couple of the staff used and we had an interesting discussion on it, I was informed that it was a beautiful reg and one of the staff said she had been using an ATX20 but decided to upgrade and said she was very glad she did. It was from that, asking a couple of other people of whom I met at the store and research online I started looking at the XTX200 for myself. At a later date asking the staff at my LDS if the reg was also suited to someone like myself. I made the decision based on the information I had read, been told and on the rationale I would prefer spend the money and know that I got a great reg than potentially want to upgrade down the line. It is also nice to know there other experienced divers around here using the same thing. The XTX50 never popped up on my radar and I never ran a detailed comparison as I thought from the beginning I know I am going to be up for a lot of money so I will just take my time save and get what I consider to be the best. The full retail of the XTX200 at my LDS on my quote is $1595 AUD yet I can get it for around $600 AUD shipped from leisurepro, I am saving a lot of money if I purchase it from there, why wouldn't I get the best.

@Rob9: Thanks for sharing that information. From interpreting what you wrote, you have spoken with the LDS staff and they have convinced you to get the XTX200 because it is the "top of the line" reg. You have spoken to one staff member in particular who is much happier with the XTX200 than the bottom of the line ATX20 (a reg that lacks the threaded heat exchanger and the inhalation adjustment knob). You think that, at some point, you might feel compelled to "upgrade" from an XTX50 to the XTX200 when you get more serious about diving...so why not just go for the XTX200 from the beginning. You want to purchase "the best."

I think that, on a fundamental level, you and I approach scuba gear purchases in a different way. Enjoy the XTX200. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

I can understand your frustration with the huge price difference (LDS vs. Leisurepro) for the same merchandise. $1595 AUD sounds like a ridiculously high mark-up for the XTX200. By all means, get it from Leisurepro or somewhere else that has better prices.

 

[gcbryan]

Keep in mind that asking staff what they use or what is good for you is asking the wrong people. They are selling the gear that they are recommending and they are also personally getting it as employees much cheaper than they can get other gear.

Top of the line scuba gear and middle of the line scuba gear differ little if at all in almost every case.

In some other industries there may actually be a difference between top and middle of the line but in scuba the difference is usually just that you'll be paying more especially with regulators.