Lionfish/DM's don't care!

[ggunn]

Although I agree with your conclusion, what you say here is now generally believed to be false. Evolution is now believed not to be a smooth continuous process but to be a series of disjointed quantum leaps, probably associated with genetic mutation.

Even if that is so, those "disjointed quantum leaps" happen over a very long time as compared to a normal human lifespan. The offspring of a dinosaur did not just sprout feathers and fly off as a bird the next day.

 

[amascuba]

As far as I'm aware, there isn't anybody who can say with any certainty that "the lion fish were introduced into the Caribbean at this location, at this time, by this person." Truth is, we don't know for a fact how they got there. Sure, there are some theories, and they may be valid theories, but to state "First, this isn't an act of nature, their presence here is an act of MAN" as a fact, just isn't truthful.

Regardless, the lion fish are in their natural habitat. They are in tropical salt water. That is their environment, no matter where that body of water is located. Evolution can sometimes take millions of years. Major shifts in the rise and fall of varying life and the evolution of better suited life has happened at least 5 times in 4.3ish billion years, going by the "era's" on our geologic time scale.

You aren't going to change the course of nature. At the most, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.

yes, amascuba is confusing. Says he believes in evolution, but does believes that the introduction of the lionfish could have happened "naturally." If he understood anything about the science of evolution, he would understand that this is a contradictory statement. Evolution is a slow process that happens over tens of thousands of years, not a decade. If he continues to think otherwise, he needs to show us the science. Otherwise, I remain unconvinced.

Also, I don't think he is going to be able to sit back and watch nature take its course, seeing how an ecosystem is developed over tens of thousands of years. However, he will be able to watch the destruction. First the small fish, shrimp and crustaceans will disappear, as what is documented to be happening now. Then the larger animals that feed on them will disappear - that is the next stage that will happen, and yes, he will probably witness that too. Corals will die-off. Yes, nature will eventually recover, but neither he, nor his children, nor their children or their children for next several thousand years will have the opportunity to sit back and watch it happen. So, what is the show that he will be around to witness? Well, I guess if you call total destruction a show, then grab the popcorn. That's the part you won't miss.

What don't I understand about evolution?

 

[peterbj7]

Lionfish, Peter. This is about Lionfish....oh yeah, kill em' all.

Yes, and all this talk about evolution is really a red herring . However they got into our waters, they weren't here a short time ago, and now they're eating us out of house and home. Either we accept that or we try to do something about it. The most useful discussion would be of our options.

 

[geokr]

What don't I understand about evolution?

Anything.

I'm going to stop feeding the troll. Useless.

 

[driftin' by]

What don't I understand about evolution?

Not to speak for K_girl but you missed the boat... Aside from you misquoting the number of eras there has been, which was probably the first result you got when you Google'd it, we're talking about evolution in terms that nonmigratory species don't relocate themselves halfway around the Earth. This fact being the most significant one the led Darwin his theory.

 

[Rhone Man]

The most useful discussion would be of our options.

Very short conversation. They are verocious eaters, have few if any natural predators, and can lay up to 35,000 eggs per breeding cycle. They are spread across a vast geographical area, much of which is not populated. Even if the two dozen or so governments concerned were to dedicate millions to the eradication of Lionfish (hint: they won't) they could not get rid of them now. Exhibit 1: the Lamprey invasion of the Great Lakes.

Learn to adapt. The environment will. You should too. Invasive species will always eventually reach a level equilibrium with their environment.

 

[amascuba]

Not to speak for K_girl but you missed the boat... Aside from you misquoting the number of eras there has been, which was probably the first result you got when you Google'd it, we're talking about evolution in terms that nonmigratory species don't relocate themselves halfway around the Earth. This fact being the most significant one the led Darwin his theory.

So much for putting me on ignore, eh?

Cenozoic, Mesozoic, Paleozoic, Proterozoic, and Archean. I count five. We had to memorize the geologic time scale in a geologic history class that I took a couple of years ago. That's not to say that the geologic time scale hasn't changed since I've taken my class. There is always a possibility that we will find evidence of something new.

If I'm not mistaken, the first fish walked on land during the Devonian period and from there land bearing mammal life began. That's a seemingly impossible feat that was overcome. Why is it that a fish migrating across the globe seemingly impossible? If you actually read what I wrote, you will see that I acknowledge that there are other possibilities for the presence of the lion fish being in the Caribbean. What I am disagreeing with is stating that the lion fish were introduced into the Caribbean by human as a fact, when we don't know how they got there. Until then, it's an opinion, nothing more.

 

[MSilvia]

I heard sea level may be rising because of human activity. I hope we all have our bailing buckets ready so we can do our part to solve that problem too.

As for the speed at which evolution happens, the adaptation of Biston betularia through predation and natural selection didn't take more than a couple of decades.

Until then, it's an opinion, nothing more.

Actually, it's a hypothesis based on and supported by evidence. That may not constitute fact, but FWIW, it's not an opinion.

 

[MSilvia]

<redacted>

 

[Hank49]

Very short conversation. They are verocious eaters, have few if any natural predators, and can lay up to 35,000 eggs per breeding cycle. They are spread across a vast geographical area, much of which is not populated. Even if the two dozen or so governments concerned were to dedicate millions to the eradication of Lionfish (hint: they won't) they could not get rid of them now. Exhibit 1: the Lamprey invasion of the Great Lakes.

Learn to adapt. The environment will. You should too. Invasive species will always eventually reach a level equilibrium with their environment.

Maybe your right...and maybe you're not. In a designated marine preserve, with multiple dive groups going almost every day, and divemasters pole spearing any lionfish they see, perhaps the numbers in that area COULD be controlled. This may in turn allow the grouper, snapper and other fish to breed without the pressure of mulitiple lionfish preying on the larvae and their offspring would in turn, move off the preserve and populate the surrounding waters. Preserves have proven effective in other areas, although without this little twist.
The beauty of lionfish (other than being beautiful) is that they move slow, are highly visible and easy to kill.