Kingpatzer:I don't like the way things are
Then why do you try so hard to keep things the way they are?
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Kingpatzer:I don't like the way things are
JamMan:Simple answer.
Which one is cheaper? Go with that one.
Then why do you try so hard to keep things the way they are?
It's a simple answer. It's also a really, really bad answer.
I don't work hard to keep things the way they are. I'm not employed within any aspect of the dive industry, I don't write training standards, I don't even write editorials for major dive publications.
What I'm arguing is that the standards as currently applied by the major recreational dive certification agencies are in fact good enough, or there is at least no objective evidence to suggest they are lacking.
What I bemoan is that we don't have better diver retention and long term participation. But that won't change without a change to the standards. However, the standards are not in place for the dive industry writ large, they are in place for the certification industry. And in that space they are good enough.
When a product or service is good enough and cheap, it will garner a larger market share than a product or service that is of a higher than necessary quality and more expensive.
The recreational dive certification customer is, as a population, not interested in developing diving skills in order to enjoy diving as a safe, lifetime hobby. They recreational dive certification customer is looking for the cheapest and fastest way to get themselves a diver card so they can flop around on a reef during their vacation and then brag to their friends back home how they are now a scuba diver.
And the standards work well enough to support that -- the accident rate is low enough that the public perception is the training and activity is good enough. The price difference between the typical agency and the higher end training is very significant, and the time to obtain certification is even more so.
I'm not arguing against change. I'm stating that it won't. The market forces preclude it. The only way the status quo changes to require a higher level of training for the average recreational diver is if the government gets involved. I'd rather see things stay as they are than have to deal with getting government issued diving licenses.
I'm also stating that it doesn't need to change from a standpoint of safety of the average recreational diver. They have enough skills to tool around on a crystal clear, warm, still reef and not drop dead of stupidity.
It does need to change in terms of long term LDS survival, local diving economic prosperity, local dive culture and participation, etc. But standards are not concerned with those things.
Kingpatzer:so long as the public remains largely uneducated about the differences between agencies, it will always be the lowest cost, shortest time to certification agencies that win out in the market.
Kingpatzer:I don't work hard to keep things the way they are.
Kingpatzer:Nearly all US based agencies align their standards to ANSI Standard Z86.3 Minimum Course Content For Safe Scuba Diving as well as the standards created by the World Recreational Scuba Training Council -- which requires that all member organizations' standards include specific minimum skills. Both PADI and SDI are member organizations.
All this means that it is instructors and stores that matter, not agencies.
Kingpatzer:And that, sadly, is what really drives these discussions because serious divers wish it wasn't the reasonable response.
Kingpatzer:No, it's not.
And that, sadly, is what really drives these discussions because serious divers wish it wasn't the reasonable response.
You've made 21 posts in this tread so far, 18 of them were partially or completely designed to keep the public uneducated about the differences between agencies. That looks like you're working pretty hard to keep things the way they are to me.
It's not a reasonable response. It's a response with no thought or understanding of the dangers involved in diving or how training can reduce those dangers.
Time for my 2 cent worth. (If that)
I'm pretty much your average recreational vacation diver although pretty much all my vacations are dive vacations. It's usually the nice clear warm waters of the Caribbean or some place like that. I may get in on average 60 to 70 dives a year.
As far as the thought that a more rigorous initial training would produce divers that would stay in the sport longer, I'm not so sure the final numbers would work out that way.