Almost died today--Any captains out there???

[DandyDon]

Well, what can I say to all of you. I was scared, if you are all so brave and this would not make you blink an eye. Good for you, then. I just went on this site to get opinions from people like you. This is a great site for you all, because you all think very similarly. No sympathy for new divers, okay, got it. Thanks.

I see that you went back to rewrite your original post #1 in edit mode. That caused some confusion to some of us who had already read the original version and didn't know to look.

My primary purpose in joining this forum/website is not to enjoy the educational value in it, but it is to ask of you all for help your opinion.

So? You got opinions. You didn't like them! Want your entrance fee back?

My partner couldn't his head remained in the water for the majority of our panic protecting us with his spear gun (poor guy).

He what? Did you drop your weights so you would float higher?

I think the lack of sympathy stems from a confrontational first post that was very sparse on details and completely onesided. Perhaps if you would be a bit more forthcoming on actual details and be willing to accept you made mistakes and are ultimately responsible for your own actions this could turn into a real conversation.

I think many who join and post like that really didn't understand that this is a discussion board and would have been happier posting on their myspace blog - with no comments allowed.

 

[Wayfarer2]

Well, what can I say to all of you. I was scared, if you are all so brave and this would not make you blink an eye. Good for you, then. I just went on this site to get opinions from people like you. This is a great site for you all, because you all think very similarly. No sympathy for new divers, okay, got it. Thanks.

First off as stated by others you are the one that makes the call on entering the water not the captain. Second, I too would have been scared in that situation, very scareed but looking for sympathy here is probably a futile endeavor. Opinions however are a dime a dozen here and the majority of members will definitely tell it like it is. Don't give up, don't get discouraged, get some more training and take the time to learn a little about the local weather patterns where you are going to be diving. Ask the captain and crew for their take on the situation (which it sounds like you did) but don't let that be the final word, think for your self.

 

[Doc]

It was a drift dive in PB, and I had a 5 foot bright orange sausage I blew up in the midst of being tossed and turned with 3-4 foot waves.

The safety sausage is best inflated and "shot" from depth, say 25', where you hang off of it at 15~20', away from the rough waves. You are likely always better-off underwater.

When the boat arrives to pick you up, then you surface, board- and can then deal with the stomach upset caused by surface wave action.

Mark your sausage uniquely with a Permanent Marker (your name's initial, etc) and show it to the "bubble watcher" You simply did not see a boat making a pickup from where you were floating "500 yards" away. Might have seemed like that, but...

People, you don't understabd I wrote that post only hours after....

Thanks for editing that first post and adding info. Understand that many of us have seen quite a few "babbling" first posts that are ranting about a dive op from the apparent perspective of someone purporting to be a noob. Some 'trolls' do this to incite a frantic response.

And today it hasn't been only twenty-four hours that I was about to get struck by lightning, eaten by a shark, or swalled by the ocean.

You didn't get hit, didn't get bit, but maybe you got licked a little by the ocean. So now it's time to pull on the big boy pants and assess your mental perspective. Are you harboring some kind of Hollywood generated fears that are statistically irrelevant? :shocked2:

It's also time to examine and study in a serious way the "advanced diving skills" that all assume you possess when you go for a flop in the ocean off of a day dive boat. On a most basic level, again- learn to shoot a sausage from depth.

A second thing to work on is "Surface Recovery Skills" which also include signaling, the physical act of re-entering the boat, as well as the pre-visualization through training of survival skills if left on the Sea. Pretty basic stuff like using that SMB line to stay together, deciding when to ditch "metal" (like tanks and regulators). A lot of bodies are yanked out of the drink strapped-up with empty tanks and full BC's. Darwin in action.

What should I do to complain about the captain's negligence?

I find that standing in his land based office, all stinky and still dripping, while leaving a pool of ocean and other fluids on his indoor/outdoor carpet will usually be a great place to do this.

Other than that, I'd give yourself four more trips on OTHER day dive boats before you even think about complaining. Get some experience in what's what.

I was thinking my life would end and I would face my master.

When you croak, you meet your Maker. When you are alive and diving, you are your master.

 

[Louie]

Well, what can I say to all of you. I was scared, if you are all so brave and this would not make you blink an eye. Good for you, then. I just went on this site to get opinions from people like you. This is a great site for you all, because you all think very similarly. No sympathy for new divers, okay, got it. Thanks.

Sympathy does not equal telling people what they always want to hear. There is constructive criticism and then there is mollycoddling. Many of us have made mistakes early in our dive careers and it was the criticisms of our errors and the further training that made us improve and continue diving.

Neither I nor any other diver expect the "oh you poor darling... it's OK...you just had a bad day and everyone else is bad..." if we make errors. Errors and poor judgement can be dangerous to those making them and to those around them. We are all responsible for our actions and if we are never going to learn from them, we'll never be competent or safe.

 

[svs]

Well, what can I say to all of you. I was scared, if you are all so brave and this would not make you blink an eye. Good for you, then. I just went on this site to get opinions from people like you. This is a great site for you all, because you all think very similarly. No sympathy for new divers, okay, got it. Thanks

Hi blueanchor,
Sorry for the unpleasant start of your diving experience.
I am curious what your buddy did during 45 min waiting?

My partner couldn't his head remained in the water for the majority of our panic protecting us with his spear gun (poor guy).

doesn't discribe situation well. Did you communicate with him. How much experience he had?

 

[Teamcasa]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Advice was asked for but that does not mean the OP should be smacked around or called names. This is Basic Scuba and newer divers will want to know how to react should they find themselves in a similar situation....

I quoted the first post again where the OP provided more details of the dive.

---

Anyway, some of you want some more information and here it is. Before we got in the water we were given our profile and our dive plan. Yeah, we noticed there was a thunderstorm on the coast, but the captain said it was going north, and we were miles offshore. I was ready until I got down there and the visibilty was crappy, it was dark, and I felt sick. Can you blame me for doing what I was trained to do?

I grabbed my diving buddy, and gave him the signal. He was reluctant to but did anyway. So, we went up to surface where a thunderstorm was passing through us, and the boat was atleast 500 yards from us and fading away. We were in a panic. I blew up my safety sausage and waved it like a madman. Nothing. I later found out that the four other divers were also stranded, scared of the storm they inflated there safety sausages and waited for twenty minutes after their dive down at their safety stop.

Fourty minutes later, after I accepted the fact I would be in heaven that afternoon after being struck by lightning or the other many possible implications of being stranded in open water and not even able to see which way is land, I saw the boat again. He was far but I could see it. My partner couldn't his head remained in the water for the majority of our panic protecting us with his spear gun (poor guy). The boat was just then picking up the other divers who were now give or take five-hundred yards away. The boat saw us and picked us up. The captain was there to greet us make sure we were alright, but never told us his side of the story. All he ever said was "thanks for coming out today." All I knew was I was safe and I survived why complain? I never did, because I was alive.

When we were done taking our gear off the boat I spoke with the crewgirl, and asked her what happened on the boat, she said, " Oh my God, I was so scared for you all We were completely pushed away bc of the storm, and could not find you. There was no visibilty and we could not see any of the sausages or anything, I was in tears the whole time." It wasn't until I got to my house that I realized what really almost happened and I had a nervous break down. I know there are worst near-death experiences we have all heard, but this one is mine

 

[Hoomi]

Well, what can I say to all of you. I was scared, if you are all so brave and this would not make you blink an eye. Good for you, then. I just went on this site to get opinions from people like you. This is a great site for you all, because you all think very similarly. No sympathy for new divers, okay, got it. Thanks.

There is a lot of empathy (far more valuable than sympathy) for new divers here. I know; this weekend took me up to a whopping 11 logged OW dives. I've been hanging around Scubaboard from right around when I first considered signing my wife and I up for lessons.

I've had some disagreements with SB members, and some are not the most diplomatic in expressing their opinions or in correcting wrong perceptions posted by other forum regulars, regardless of whether it's a n00b they're disagreeing with or a long-time diver and SB member.

The reason I stick around, though, is that there's also a wealth of experience and information right here, and along with the undiplomatic folks, there are also a great deal of people who go out of their way to be friendly and helpful.

As n00bs we're going to make some dumb mistakes. I know. I made one this weekend. When we dove Sunday morning, viz was way down. I didn't pay nearly as much attention to my compass as I should have, particularly since we were just cruising along nice and easy along a sandy, nearly featureless bottom. There was just enough surge action to keep the scattered vegetation swaying back and forth.

When it came time to turn back, based on the amount of air I had left, I signaled my wife to head back, turned around, and checked my compass heading. Apparently, along with the surge, there was just enough current that had been helping us out, and now slowed us down heading back. Not only that, but with the surge, it tended to turn us without us realizing it until I checked my compass again.

At that point, I had no clue just how turned around we were, and decided it made a lot more sense to go ahead and surface, rather than possibly end up swimming in the wrong direction until my air was gone. We made a slow, sensible ascent, and once up saw that I'd managed to get us completely out of the bay.

My wife got a bit stressed about it. We were a long ways out, in 2 - 4 foot swells, and by this point I definitely did NOT have enough air remaining to try and swim submerged back to shore.

We inflated our BC's and started a steady back-swim towards shore. We could have snorkeled, but on our backs I had an easy time glancing towards the landmarks so we kept going the right direction. It also allowed me to see when a swell was coming, and be ready in case it washed over us. I held onto my wife's tank valve so we would both stay together, and while it took a bit of time, we got back just fine. The only "casualties" in this incident were my sunburned face, from floating on my back for so long, and my wife's breakfast, as she is more susceptible to seasickness than I am. We were almost all the way back when it finally got too much for her and she lost it.

I fully expect the "old hands" here to confirm that, yes, I screwed up. This was, however, probably the most valuable dive of the weekend. They told us in class that we need to pay attention to where we're going and how to get back, and they taught us how to use the compass. I also already knew that the easiest method of UW navigation is keeping a fixed feature in sight, such as a ridge of rocks bordering a sandy bottom. It's bonehead navigation to swim out with the rocks on one side of your body, so if you swim back with them on the other side, you're retracing your path. I didn't do either that dive, and it could have turned into a much scarier situation.

There's an old quote that goes something to the effect of, "Experience is a harsh teacher, for he gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards."

We both got some harsh lessons lately, and if you're anything like I am, this one is going to stick with you far more than something they might have told you in class. The biggest lesson is this: We survived a less-than-ideal situation as n00bs, and we can see from the reactions of the old timers that, while unsettling, it wasn't really as serious as we might have thought. Our big lesson is, keep our heads, and don't make the situation worse by panicking.

Stick around, and get to know the people here. I think you'll find, as I have, that this is a terrific place to talk scuba, ask opinions about products and procedures, share stories, and - perhaps not so enjoyable - have it confirmed that we screwed up.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an experienced diver tell me I screwed up, than have him worry about my feelings and possibly reinforce a bad habit. To me, that's the best way for me to become one of those old timers myself.

 

[under water]

Crew said .. We were completely pushed away bc of the storm, and could not find you. There was no visibilty and we could not see any of the sausages or anything ..

Thanks for posting your experience. I think you were lucky given the whole story as it is laid out in your edited initial post. I also think that the captain was, like you, to some degree a victim of circumstance. It was perhaps his skill that found you after losing track of you. It is a bit hard to follow bubbles in the kind of storm you describe.
I'm glad you all made it back to the dock.
The problem was probably pushing luck and starting the dive when the storm was so near. Which, as has been discussed here many times, is your responsibility, but there is a bit of lemming in all of us. I am still not clear if you are a seasoned or new diver, but if a new diver, I know that it is easy to look to more experienced divers to decide if it is OK for you.
I hope that I never find myself in your situation, but if I am, I will remember that the boat came back and found you and hopefully it will find me too!

 

[Teamcasa]

Thanks for posting your experience. I think you were lucky given the whole story as it is laid out in your edited initial post. I also think that the captain was, like you, to some degree a victim of circumstance. It was perhaps his skill that found you after losing track of you. It is a bit hard to follow bubbles in the kind of storm you describe.
I'm glad you all made it back to the dock.
The problem was probably pushing luck and starting the dive when the storm was so near. Which, as has been discussed here many times, is your responsibility, but there is a bit of lemming in all of us. I am still not clear if you are a seasoned or new diver, but if a new diver, I know that it is easy to look to more experienced divers to decide if it is OK for you.
I hope that I never find myself in your situation, but if I am, I will remember that the boat came back and found you and hopefully it will find me too!

Another excellent post Frank.

 

[trigfunctions]

A couple comments, fwiw,

Blueanchor it sounds like you did the right thing in thumbing the dive when you felt uncomfortable, sticking with your buddy, inflating your safety sausage, waiting for the boat, and not panicking. It sounds like you just got hit with some terrible luck when the weather turned awful and the boat couldn't get you quickly. Even though it was extremely uncomfortable, you kept your wits and didn't make things worse.

My only question is this - were you in a group that was towing a dive flag on a drift dive? If so, it would have been better if you had ascended up the line and stayed with the dive flag. Of course, in that weather that may not have been possible. The boat has to try to follow the flag because that is where most divers should be. If you were separated from the flag it is harder for the boat to know where you are.

Now it sounds like the storm came in and pushed the boat away from it's original path. I'm sure you can understand that if the waves are bad and the rain is really pouring and the wind is blowing, the boat can't just drive around looking for people because they might run them over! It sounds like the boat had to wait a while for conditions to improve so it could see where it was going.

Also - you may have watched Open Water too many times - it is extremely unlikely that a shark or anything else is going to bother you while bobbing around off the coast of Palm Beach. Even if the boat left you completely, there are so many boats around that area that you would have been spotted by someone once the weather cleared up. If you really felt uncomfortable you could have dropped your weights to make it easier to float, but it sounds like that was not an issue.

Lastly, a lot of people are giving you grief for diving when there was a chance of a storm. I don't think they understand the weather conditions in South Florida. There is always a chance of a storm in the spring and summer, every day. Usually the captains can avoid them but sometimes they can't. I've been on local dive boats where I went in the water with absolutely perfect weather and came up an hour later in storms like you describe. It's no fun.

I'm sorry you went through what you did, but I think the thing to take away from it is that you did the right things and made it OK, so you should have the confidence to dive again knowing that in the event of a very unusual, extreme situation, you had the presence of mind to make the best decisions you could at the time.