JACKET vs. BACK INFLATE BCDs- which and why?

[rstofer]

After my final PADI open water cert dive, I asked my instructor for some advice on buying equipment. He said that the only advice he wanted to give was DO NOT buy a back inflate BC, ONLY buy a jacket type. He said that he had seen too many beginners having trouble with back inflates. He said that they were harder to dump air from.
After reading this thread I am questioning his advice. I understand why the back inflates might give beginners problems at the surface, but they seem to be easily fixable. Could some instructors comment on this ?

I'm not an instructor so take this for what it is worth - about nothing...

I bought a rear-inflate BC for my 10 year old grandson. He dives it just fine. And he's just a kid!

The rest of us dive BP/Ws of various pedigree.

That said, I think it is easier for beginning divers to use a jacket BC. I would certainly recommend RENTING a jacket style for a while. In fact, most LDSs have both jacket and rear-inflate for rent. Try them both. Make a bunch of dives on each and see what you like.

If my choice was between ONLY a jacket style or rear-inflate BC, I might just buy the jacket. But if a BP/W is included in the choices, that's where I would spend my money.

I can put together an inexpensive BP/W for cold water diving like this:

DiveRite SS Backplate - $97 (LeisurePro)
HOG 32# Wing - $200 (Dolphin Scuba)
DiveRite Basic Harness - $27 (LeisurePro)
DiveRite Tank Bands - $41 (LeisurePro) - set of two

TOTAL $365

OR, you can just buy the complete HOG rig from Dolphin Scuba for $400.

For warmer water, where an aluminum plate would be adequate, the kit price drops by $47 to $318 and the package price drops by $100 to $300.

So, the cost for a cold water setup is about the same as the Scubapro Knighthawk BC if you bought it from LeisurePro. The same BC at your LDS is likely to be a LOT more.

What to buy? Beats me!

For the very first dives, rent a jacket BC. After a dozen dives or so, start renting a rear-inflate. After another dozen dives, decide what you like. If your LDS rents a BP/W, try that for a while.

Richard

 

[fnfalman]

After my final PADI open water cert dive, I asked my instructor for some advice on buying equipment. He said that the only advice he wanted to give was DO NOT buy a back inflate BC, ONLY buy a jacket type. He said that he had seen too many beginners having trouble with back inflates. He said that they were harder to dump air from.
After reading this thread I am questioning his advice. I understand why the back inflates might give beginners problems at the surface, but they seem to be easily fixable. Could some instructors comment on this ?

I'm glad my instructor didn't tell me that. I bought the Dive Rite Transpac (more of a soft backplate and wing than a back inflate) right out of my basic OW class and I loved it right after the first dive. Hell, when I put it on, I knew right away that it was a good rig (reminded me of the rucksack I used to pack in the Army) unlike the cumbersome, ill-fitted jacket BC.

 

[boulderjohn]

OK, I use everything!

When I instruct, I use the same rental jacket BCD's the students wear.

I have used a back inflate BCD (two different ones) for my personal receational diving for 10 years, and I was (and am) very comfortable. I feel totally in control when I wear it.

When I dive doubles, I use a Backplate and wing. There really isn't any choice, and it works just fine.

They all work, in fact. It is really personal preference.

The primary reason I have different gear for recreational and technical diving is just the way it worked out. I had the recreational gear and had to get the BP/W for technical, so I had both and have not felt a great motivation to do what it takes to make a change. If someone were to steal my recreational gear, I would probably get what I need to do singles on my BP/W rather than buy a whole new rig, but otherwise ...

Between a jacket and a back inflate, I much prefer the back inflate. but I know highly experienced divers who feel just the opposite. In fact, the LDS for whom I do my instruction has trouble selling back inflates because all the sales staff--all of whom are also instructors--prefers jackets and can't help but steer customers in that direction.

As for the difficulty in dumping air, I know that when I am properly weighted in a 3 mm suit, it can be a real trick to find what little bubble there is in my BCD. If you think about it, though, you can manipulate it to where it needs to be. (Air wants to go up!) I don't think it's any easier in a jacket BCD; in fact, I think it's easier for that bubble to hide in one.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As for the difficulty in dumping air, I know that when I am properly weighted in a 3 mm suit, it can be a real trick to find what little bubble there is in my BCD. If you think about it, though, you can manipulate it to where it needs to be. (Air wants to go up!) I don't think it's any easier in a jacket BCD; in fact, I think it's easier for that bubble to hide in one.

I started diving in what you all are calling jacket, but I call vest BC. First one was the cheapest SeaQuest at the time (~$250); it took me all the way through my IE and my first dive shop instructor job. After a couple thousand dives I upgraded to a near new eBay SeaQuest Spectrum 2 ($120 shipped); same basic design as my first but TWO pockets and BLUE! A couple thousands dives later, when my most recent employer forced me to carry a large slate, I was lucky enough to find a hardly used BLUE SeaQuest Balance (BI) at Salvation Army ($20!).

Along the way I have worked for shops renting Oceanic, Scuba Pro, Aqua Lung and Mares, and I made numerous dives in all those vest styles that the students / renters used. From my personal experience the SeaQuest / Aqua Lung vests are the easiest to vent air from. I think that is very important for a newb (and the instructor), and coincidently much of the rental gear I see here in Hawaii is Aqua Lung / SeaQuest vests.

After hundreds of working dives in the Balance (and dozens of non-working) I can state that it is harder for me to vent air in the Balance than in any SeaQuest vest I have ever dove in. I must contort much higher to the left to get the last air out of the in/deflator, to the point of nearly swimming on my back. The kidney dump is a really long stretch when I am head down with a little too much air, and I have relatively long arms. In the vests the kidney dump is always, well, right where my kidney is! I am skilled enough to dive well in either BC but it is easier to vent air in the vest!

That is what is missing from much of the information on-line, the details! For me, in those specific BC's, that's what I have personally experienced. I only really have personal experience to make that statement; for me the Balance releases air less ergonomically than all non-integrated Aqua Lung / SeaQuest vests.

From a witness standpoint, the students / beginners I have taught / watched diving have had similar experiences; most BI's seem to release air more difficultly than most vests.

With regards to fit, a well fitted BC fits well, no mater the style. A bad fit in any style is bad. Luckily SeaQuests of the era I prefer came in M/L, and a M/L SeaQuest vest fits me very well.

With regards to trim, I like a little weight up by my shoulder blades. I will probably never buy another BC that does not have such trim pockets, although I am a handy MacGyver.

Some divers have different priorities; as a tropical tourist instructor I prefer my beginners to be able to release air from their BC's as easily as possible.

 

[Puffer Fish]

After my final PADI open water cert dive, I asked my instructor for some advice on buying equipment. He said that the only advice he wanted to give was DO NOT buy a back inflate BC, ONLY buy a jacket type. He said that he had seen too many beginners having trouble with back inflates. He said that they were harder to dump air from.
After reading this thread I am questioning his advice. I understand why the back inflates might give beginners problems at the surface, but they seem to be easily fixable. Could some instructors comment on this ?

Will give it a try. Instructors, for the most part, like to keep things simple and under control. Experienced divers tend to like to keep things simple. Problem is... the word "simple" means totally different things.

When someone writes about overinflating the wing/bag causing an issue, so don't do it... how does a new diver know what "too much" is? And if something in those first 20 divers or so goes wrong, will the diver remember to not do the wrong thing?

From an instructors point of view, you know when a vest type is over inflated, when it is trying to squeeze you. A vest always floats you upright on the surface... it's actions are predictable and... "Simple"..

Not every instructor view things that way, and some of this would depend on where one was teaching.

There is something to be said for both view points.. and there are a lot of very experienced divers that still use vest type BC's.

It should be noted also, that there are a fair number of very experienced divers that use BP/W's that still do not know how to get the unit to float you upright, even when fully inflated...which would seem to justify your instructors point of view.

Note: I don't dive a jacket BC.. don't like them, never have. But that comes from diving long before they were invented. However, I can still understand their value.

 

[paddler3d]

After my final PADI open water cert dive, I asked my instructor for some advice on buying equipment. He said that the only advice he wanted to give was DO NOT buy a back inflate BC, ONLY buy a jacket type. He said that he had seen too many beginners having trouble with back inflates. He said that they were harder to dump air from.

I'll give you my personal experience about why back inflates may be harder to dump air from.

I dive a BP/W. My wing is a 'U' shape. All of my dump valves are on my left side. If I've been swimming down or upside down, a bit air can get trapped in the bottom right of my wing.

Knowing that, I compensate my orientation if I feel it is a problem.

I've found though it is real, real rare that I've had this issue, real rare.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'll give you my personal experience about why back inflates may be harder to dump air from.

I dive a BP/W. My wing is a 'U' shape. All of my dump valves are on my left side. If I've been swimming down or upside down, a bit air can get trapped in the bottom right of my wing.

A backinflate is different from a typical wing set up. When you say "all my dump valves" in a typical wing, you are talking about two: the end of inflator hose and the rear dump.

A typical back inflate has four dumps, with the addition of a dump at the base of the inflator hose and another one on the right shoulder.

 

[boulderjohn]

Some divers have different priorities; as a tropical tourist instructor I prefer my beginners to be able to release air from their BC's as easily as possible.

Unfortunately, this goal is all too easily and all too often reached by overweighting the diver.

 

[Teamcasa]

...With regards to fit, a well fitted BC fits well, no mater the style. A bad fit in any style is bad.

This is so often overlooked and why a few people automatically respond to every "Which BC?" question with "Get a BP/W." as they are designed to fit any body type.

Believe it or not, many people who use a jacket BC, either both back inflate or otherwise and it fits them perfectly have no issue diving them for years.

If your current BC does not fit properly or your body type is such that a jacket BC rides up or does not hold your tank securely and or will not trim out for you, then by all means try something else, up to and including a BP/W.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Some divers have different priorities; as a tropical tourist instructor I prefer my beginners to be able to release air from their BC's as easily as possible.

Unfortunately, this goal is all too easily and all too often reached by overweighting the diver.

OK, I guess that in order to defend all the decent tropical instructors from this snide reply (which added nothing to the conversation) I will have to add two words to the taken out of context quote.

"As a tropical tourist instructor I prefer my beginners to be able to release all the air from their BC's as easily as possible."