Why not BP/W for Beginner?

[Nemrod]

As to me picking on PadI, they started it and I have a long ways to go yet.

Honest question - when did PADI start picking on you? R U referring to PADI the agency or PADI members?
As far as ripping apart agencies and their standards or business models, just about any experienced diver/instructor can do that to any agency. What's the point? Only by hitting their bottom lines are any of the agencies going to change. I'm not saying that changes aren't needed, but this is not a new subject on the board. Have all the forums on agencies needing to change brought about change?
Take care,
George

They, PadI, nannified the sport of SCUBA, it is a conspirocy I tell you, they are in my TV set too, spying on me to make sure I wear my snorkel correctly and that I am officially color coordinated.

Nah, y'all get back to the length of hoses and stainless vs aluminum and all that, of course you don't need to be water confident and drown proofed to SCUBA dive, nah, I am just being paranoid. The keystone skill is swimming, the rest builds on that and the confidence being a good swimmer provides.

I think a student should be able to learn in any gear they choose. If the instructor is not proficient with the students chosen gear then he/she being the professional should become proficient with it.

I am sorry, I was picking on y'all and causing a stir, carry on. I cannot help kicking ant piles.

N

 

[bfw]

Hm... A jacket from XS Scuba costs about $380 (I didn't do a lot of shopping) and a DSS BP/W costs about $524 (large SS plate with Pro-Fit Harness and LCD 30 wing). The wings alone (no plate/harness) are expensive - usually in the $300+ price range.

Put together 3 rigs. Most expensive was $275 because I wanted to dive the next day and couldn't wait for shipping, so I had to get a Halcyon wing locally.

 

[bfw]

I use a wing and HATE using BCs. I have many buddys that have tried wings but much prefer their BCs. Both do the same job at the end of the day, neither choice is "wrong".

One or the other is inferior, less optimal, and thus, yes, the dreaded "w" word, which is so dreaded these days, applies to one. The diving community can debate forever which one it is, without ever reaching a consensus, but the inability to agree on the right answer doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[Hammerhead]

I only recommend two BP/W manufacturers, Halcyon and DSS. BTW, Welcome to diving and ScubaBoard. Good luck and safe diving. almtree: Bob

Wings, hmmm let's see.

I have tried the following: -

Halcyon
OMS
Oxycheq
Dive Rite
DSS
and (I think) Salvo - do they make wings?

All did the same job. Could I really tell the difference when properly adjusted (other than lift)? Nope.

I currently own a 17lb Oxycheq and a lovely pink DSS 30lb number that goes with my cheeks when I summon up the balls to wear it. Both are fine and I can recommend them.

 

[Standingbear56]

They, PadI, nannified the sport of SCUBA, it is a conspirocy I tell you, they are in my TV set too, spying on me to make sure I wear my snorkel correctly and that I am officially color coordinated.

It's OK, we understand. These nice divers in the white coats can help you. They have medications to help you with your PADI phobia. They have all sucessfully passed PADI's anti PADI phobia specialty! They all took the $99.00 special specialty!

For proper color cordination, please check with the DIR folks!

Nah, y'all get back to the length of hoses and stainless vs aluminum and all that, of course you don't need to be water confident and drown proofed to SCUBA dive, nah, I am just being paranoid. The keystone skill is swimming, the rest builds on that and the confidence being a good swimmer provides.

I agree totally (bold face print)

I think a student should be able to learn in any gear they choose. If the instructor is not proficient with the students chosen gear then he/she being the professional should become proficient with it.

I agree totally again!

I am sorry, I was picking on y'all and causing a stir, carry on. I cannot help kicking ant piles.

Watch out, some of those ants can bite back. They have the PADI fireant specialty!!!!

Take care,
George

 

[SparticleBrane]

I like the jacket BC because it floats me high in the water. The BP/W, when properly inflated, doesn't float me anywhere near as high. In my view, floating high in the water may be more comfortable for student divers. Particularly young student divers. And that's what the OP asked about.

I've spent the past few years volunteering with the scuba program at my university; all our students during this time have been trained from day one using a backplate/wing setup. To my knowledge we haven't had issues with students being uncomfortable by being "lower in the water". If there are comfort issues with that.....:shocked2:

 

[Trimix2dive]

First off, I'm new to diving and new to this board so I'm still very green.

I am planning my dive gear purchases and without a large amount of disposable income I would like to be able to make the right equipment purchase the first go round. From what I have read, there is alot to be said for a BP/W setup. It appeals to me partly because of simplicity, and because I can see the benefits of being able to maintain a horizontal attitude. My experiences with a jacket style BC have resulted with me finning to remain close to level.

My long winded question is this, when checking out gear at my local LDS, I am steered towards a jacket style BC. Is there a reason why a beginner should choose to not use a BP/W?

Thanks for the information I've already picked up from lurking around for a while![/Q

My 12 yo twins dive backplates with wings. I've been diving for 18 years - no reason not to.

 

[David_57]

Most dive shops conducting entry level training tend to be philosophically at odds with those advocating BP/W's, because the majority of BP/W users and the agencies with which they affiliate also advocate a paradigm of dive training and entry requirements that are incompatible with the dominant dive shop business model. Without getting into who is right, BP/W enthusiasts tend to support a philosophy called DIR which emphasizes rigorous training that requires a large commitment of time, effort, and personal fitness. It's a philosophy that would probably exclude 60% or more of currently certified divers from the sport.


In answer to the above quote by bfw

Sorry mate hate to disagree I dive with a backplate and Bungeed wing set up anyone that knows DIR understands thier dislike of a bungeed wings which I love to dive with, this is one of many reasons I have no wish to be DIR trained more into TDI.

By the way I think the OP must be totally confused by now

 

[cool_hardware52]

. Without getting into who is right, BP/W enthusiasts tend to support a philosophy called DIR

While you will find 100% of DIR divers in back plates, it's simply not true that BP&W = DIR.

I talk with many new BP&W divers every week from all parts of the country and around the world. Many either have no idea of what DIR means, or they have a negative opinion, usually based on miss information. A minority know of "DIR" and a smaller minority are actually headed down that path.

Tobin

 

[AbyssalPlains]

Most dive shops push jacket style BC's for one reason, and one reason only: $$$

Jackets are trendy, they come in many different colors and styles. They follow the fashion trend. They are expensive, too. Most jackets will cost more than a BP/W setup.

You seem to be on the right track: simplicity is good!!

Don't listen to them. If they are reluctant to order you a BW/W setup, order it online.