Questions from a non-videographer

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Scotttyd

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Location
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So I really know nothing about underwater videography. I do take photos, but I have watched some videos and it really perked my curiousity. I know there are large ranges based on quality, etc. What is involved in a basic setup? Obviously a camera and housing. But do people use attached lights (ie strobes from a photographer's standpoint), or do they just use their dive lights? Also, what kind of dollar amount are we talking? I do now need professional level equiptment, but I would want something that takes descent video. I need to know how much to start saving:D I am a long way from making a purchase, but thought I would take a look around.
 
A basic camera/housing setup starts around $1000-1500. You can do it for less but you give up something - generally control options. Lights can easily double or triple the cost. Most dive lights have hotspots so while good for focusing the beam, make lousy video lights. An exception is the UK Light Cannon with a diffuser, I know several people who use them - 2 of them typically. One of the arm mfr's even makes a mount to adapt UK LC's for this purpose.

As in photography there's a wide variety of lens/port options to also consider. Another semi-critical aspect of u/w video is the ability to Manual White Balance. And it's nice to have some sort of internal/external monitor option for framing shots.

The other thing to consider is format. A basic MiniDV camera can cost as little as $250 but at least in the consumer space, pretty much everything seems to be HDV since most people (at least ones I know) have an HDTV now. Since you seem to be looking from a hobbyist perspective, I'm limiting my remarks to discussing 1chip CMOS-based cameras. 3-chip models and corresponding housings start about $4K and go well over $10K or higher.

Another consideration is the computer power needed to edit HDV and especially the newer AVCHD format material used by the HDD/solid state media format cameras now available. And storage space, as I recall, HDV requires about 13GB per hour of tape imported.

The other big decision in u/w video is electronic vs. mechanical housing controls. With an electronic housing, you plug a cable into your Sony (only) camera's LANC jack and control all the camera functions via some sort of control handles/switches on the housing. With a mechanical housing, individual control rods/buttons are placed to activate all the needed camera functions.

Both have pros/cons. For electronics, some of the manufacturers offer a more universal housing that will often work with most of the similarly sized Sony cameras. Downside is that there are reported cases of electronics failing, should the housing flood it's almost a given, and MWB is hard to implement in an electronic housing due to Sony's insistence on putting MWB on the LCD screen now. Most electronic housings that offer MWB do it with a mechanical control rod currently. Also you have to use a Sony camera since no other mfr. offers a LANC jack.

Advantages to mechanical housings are that the controls are positive and most offer a MWB option if your camera supports it. And if you flood it, just rinse and dry it out - and go back to shooting - after replacing the camera. For me the biggest downside of a mechanical housing is that they're typically very model specific and mfr's are reluctant (or won't) modify them for your new camera. And controls are located all over the housing so you have to move your hands more to activate them. I would find that harder to do when framing a shot in the viewfinder.

So basic options (I only speak to Sony/Canon housings as that's what I know) start around $1500 for an HDV setup from a reliable housing mfr. These prices include cameras but as in photography, typically include only a standard front lens port. Port upgrades range from $300 to over $3000. (It's possible to pay more for a port than for the housing)

Typical housing limitations in this price range will be depth (sub-200') and material - typically they'll be poly rather than metal and offer less sophisticated port options.

Options would be Ikelite or Equinox on the mechanical side, TopDawg, Ocean Images on the electronic side.

(Astute readers will note I didn't mention USVH, Warren has announced he's doing repairs/upgrades only now)

The $3000-3500 range gets you into a mechanical housing from Gates or electronic housing from Light & Motion, Amphibico, SeaTools and many others. Gates, L&M and Amphibico are generally agreed to be industry leaders in the better housing market.

I haven't talked at all about lights since I don't use/own them. But I only shoot in warm, bright tropical water using a red-compensating filter. fwiw, I shoot an Amphibico Evo with a Sony HDR-HC1 camera. It's several years old and cost me just under $4K new with all the options.

All of these options can be found in the housing list stickied in this forum. Some better options for where to purchase systems include (alpha order) B&H Photo/Video, H2OPhotoPros, MarineVisions, and Reef Photo/Video.

hth,
 
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Excellent intro. to video! I'll forward your post to all who ask me about UW video.

Cheers,

X

p.s. I will add that if you shoot in colder, darker, deeper waters a powerful set of lights will be necessary. Add 1500.00 - 3000.00
 
As in photography there's a wide variety of lens/port options to also consider. Another semi-critical aspect of u/w video is the ability to Manual White Balance. And it's nice to have some sort of internal/external monitor option for framing shots.

Another consideration is the computer power needed to edit HDV and especially the newer AVCHD format material used by the HDD/solid state media format cameras now available. And storage space, as I recall, HDV requires about 13GB per hour of tape imported.

The other big decision in u/w video is electronic vs. mechanical housing controls. Both have their advantages/disadvantages. With an electronic housing, you plug a cable into your Sony (only) camera's LANC port and control all the camera functions via some sort of control handles/switches on the housing. With a mechanical housing, individual control rods/buttons are placed to activate all the needed camera functions.

Both have pros/cons. For electronics, some of the manufacturers offer a more universal housing that will often work with most of the similarly sized Sony cameras. Downside is that there are reported cases of electronics failing, should the housing flood it's almost a given, and MWB is hard to implement in an electronic housing due to Sony's insistence on putting MWB on the LCD screen now. Most electronic housings that offer MWB do it with a mechanical control rod currently. Also you have to buy a Sony camera since no other mfr. offers a LANC port.

Advantages to mechanical housings are that the controls are positive and most offer a MWB option if your camera supports it. And if you flood it, just rinse and dry it out - and go back to shooting - after replacing the camera. For me the biggest downside of a mechanical housing is that they're typically very model specific and mfr's are reluctant (or won't) modify them for your new camera. And controls are located all over the housing so you have to move your hands more to activate them. I would find that harder to do when framing a shot in the viewfinder.

So basic options (I only speak to Sony/Canon housings as that's what I know) start around $1500 for an HDV setup from a reliable housing mfr. These prices include cameras but as in photography, typically a standard port. Port upgrades range from $300 to over $3000. (It's possible to pay more for a port than for the housing)
wow, lots of info, thanks, I appreciate it
a couple of (maybe stupid) questions. Port? What exactly do you mean? Is this what you mean by electonic vs manual controls, or is this something entirely different that I did not catch?

As far as a view finder, if your camera has one you can use without flipping it open (my home camcorder you have to do this), will it usually be sufficient or do you need an auxillary viewfinder I have seen sold on some sites?

I would think you would want to get an electronic control, because if you upgrade your camera, I really would hate to have to buy a new housing (with my photo camera the housing is more than the camera itself). Is my thinking right on this?
 
wow, lots of info, thanks, I appreciate it
a couple of (maybe stupid) questions. Port? What exactly do you mean? Is this what you mean by electonic vs manual controls, or is this something entirely different that I did not catch?
The port is the optical element on the front of the housing. Often it's contains lens elements with some magnification. I may've confused you in my prior post since I used the term LANC port also. It's really a LANC jack, I've just always heard it referred to as a "port". Corrected my previous post.

Various port configurations are available depending on what lens you are using on the camera. The simplest is a flat port - it's just a piece of clear glass. Used mostly for macro work with a macro lens installed on the camera pre-dive. It's also good for general shooting using the camera's zoom as needed. More expensive housings sell with a standard port - typically with some magnification. The wider the field of view, the more a port costs.

Ports costing the most $$ are the wide angle and super-wide angle ports - used for what they're named for. Often in conjunction with an add-on w/a lens.

Most housings are sold with a port good for general use. I've captured seahorses at under a foot and dolphins at 60-70' away clearly with mine. It has 0.55x magnification and 70° coverage. I believe it's a full zoom-thru also, meaning it shouldn't get "soft" when zoomed out. But most of my stuff is shot under 20' away so I've really never noticed.
As far as a view finder, if your camera has one you can use without flipping it open (my home camcorder you have to do this), will it usually be sufficient or do you need an auxillary viewfinder I have seen sold on some sites?
Want to house your home camcorder? You probably can. If you buy the right housing, it might work with a future camcorder purchase also. Especially if it's a Sony.

These are my thoughts, others may have differing opinions. I currently shoot with a housing that just has a small window to view the camera's viewfinder. It works for me. But I've shot a lot of video so instinctively know what I'm framing. Most of the time I shoot with the camera set to wide angle and the housing out in front of me at arms length. Works surprisingly well. If it's really critical framing, I look through the viewfinder.

Otoh, my buddy borrowed my camera once and shot footage of the bottom 2/3rd's of some turtles and cut the heads off a couple angelfish....:D

In some housings, you can open the LCD screen entirely inside, others have a limited view of it through the back glass and some let you fold it back flat and use a mirror to view it. Ikelite and Seatools do this, but Ikelite only provides "reversing circuitry" for certain Sony models, otherwise it pans backwards.

Most manufacturers sell add-on monitors, they either replace the back of the housing or mount on top. Top mounts have the advantage of being able to still be seen when filiming an object slightly below you. There's also standard definition monitors and a couple of pricey hi-def monitors. For really critical focusing with a hi-def camera, you need a hi-def monitor. For general framing not as much - if you can set the monitor to 16x9 format when used with a newer HDV camera that shoots in 16x9 also.

I would think you would want to get an electronic control, because if you upgrade your camera, I really would hate to have to buy a new housing (with my photo camera the housing is more than the camera itself). Is my thinking right on this?
That's my position. Video housings are the same, typically cost 1-1/2 to 2 times more than the camera they house. As posted previously, port$ can double that cost.

I've upgraded cameras twice in 5 years. Although I also upgraded my housing when I switched to HDV, my old housing would've still worked with my new HDV camera - just not as well. Because all my cameras were Sony and all had LANC jacks for control.

Go to Amphibico's website and look at the EVO Elite models. Notice that they're all the same basic design? (Actually I think they're all exactly the same housing - just marketing imho.) The only difference I see between their new EVO Elite and my 4 year old EVO is the back mounted monitor. The models listed represent 3-4 years of Sony camera introductions.
 
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Pushed for time so a few very short answers to your excellent questions.

Lights=expensive. Good video lights can cost many times more than your video gear. This video uses a Sony camcorder set to night mode with some flashlights. Not too bad for a few hundred dollar setup. manta You could definetly get better video, but at what cost? Thousands of dollars in lighting. Well worth it if you can afford it.

What dollar amount? complete setup from $450.00 to $45,000 To see what a $450.00 setup can do, check out my videos on www.shellicam.com The controls, MWB, zoom, etc. do help, but are not necessary to make good video. They are necessary to make great video.

Learn how to edit video and spend $100 on good video editing software. I previously used Magix software, but have recently learned Adobe premiere elements 4.0 I am much happier with that software. Very intuitive, and much faster processing.

Listen to the guys on this board. Most are excellent and I have seen very little brand loyalty issues that I am used to seeing. The people on this board like gear that works at the users budget.

Have fun, be safe, and remember to buy gear that makes sense. I am not a videographer, I am an R&D guy. My videos are for fun and family. My gear cost reflects that. Several people on this board make their living doing videography, so their investment costs make sense. My gear is literally less than $425.00

Hope this helps.
 
.....
...I have seen very little brand loyalty issues that I am used to seeing. The people on this board like gear that works at the users budget.
.

It's easy to be loyal to a brand when you are happy with it.

Some pro and semi-pro users are sponsored by housing mfrs to use and promote the brand. I was surprised when I found this out. Didn't think sponsorship made it all the way down to nitch UW videography. That may be the cause of some the issues you speak of. I always thought users should include in their sig if they are sponsored or a vendor.

You don't see it much here because most of us are low level amateur UW videographers.
 
True, but even me, a guy that works for Shellicam recommend other units if the budget allows. I have seen that with other guys who are part of another brand. It is nice to see this board has people who work for and use equipment that have such a huge range of ability and price. I am sure if I asked what to get with a 25,000 budget, or a 500 dollar budget, the response from this board would be couteous and much less intimidating than I have seen in so many other communities. I have only seen a fw people on this board with negative things to say about any quality or level of component. Except for the Clear acrylic cookie jar housing which deserved to be ridiculed. I also enjoy the people on this forum not immediately replying with the "do you know how to use search?" response. I don't mind answering the same question regularly, it is not that big of a deal.

Just a simple thanks to the majority of the people in this particular forum for their great attitudes and friendly responses. It is nice to be part of a forum that does not scare people off constantly.
 
True, but even me, a guy that works for Shellicam recommend other units if the budget allows. I have seen that with other guys who are part of another brand. It is nice to see this board has people who work for and use equipment that have such a huge range of ability and price. I am sure if I asked what to get with a 25,000 budget, or a 500 dollar budget, the response from this board would be couteous and much less intimidating than I have seen in so many other communities. I have only seen a fw people on this board with negative things to say about any quality or level of component. Except for the Clear acrylic cookie jar housing which deserved to be ridiculed. I also enjoy the people on this forum not immediately replying with the "do you know how to use search?" response. I don't mind answering the same question regularly, it is not that big of a deal.

Just a simple thanks to the majority of the people in this particular forum for their great attitudes and friendly responses. It is nice to be part of a forum that does not scare people off constantly.

Ditto I cant agree with you more, its nice to have a forum where everyone is so helpful and knowledgeable. I agree that many times its easier to simply answer a question than say use the search feature...
 
Have fun, be safe, and remember to buy gear that makes sense. I am not a videographer, I am an R&D guy. My videos are for fun and family. My gear cost reflects that. Several people on this board make their living doing videography, so their investment costs make sense. My gear is literally less than $425.00

Hope this helps.

What camera/housing do you use?
 

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