DIR Question

[SparticleBrane]

^ You must not know much about the courses he teaches and how he teaches them...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

2 minutes is a LOONG time when your lungs are empty.

 

[TSandM]

It would be my guess that Thal's students are comfortable underwater for two minutes, in controlled circumstances where they know they have a bailout. Without a doubt, that would make them somewhat more comfortable for longer in the event of a true OOG situation. But I seriously doubt that someone, at depth and without warning, who goes out of gas, could remain perfectly composed for two minutes while arranging a source for breathing gas.

 

[Sas]

I'm not even close to being a DIR diver and have no plans to follow the guidelines to the letter in the future. I have read Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving and found it a great read however, and cannot fault anything that the book says, as I think it encourages very safe diving practices. However, some of the things I would not take on board are diving with Nitrox on every dive below 30m. I do tonnes of 3m pier dives and it would be a waste of money to pay double for a Nitrox fill! Also I am comfortable diving to 40m on air - yes that is more risky than what DIR advocates, but it is an extra risk I am willing to take onboard. Also I love my console computer So basically I can see where they are coming from, from a safety point of view but I guess I am happy to take on more risk in my diving. Another thing I find restrictive is that ponies are considered useless and that one should use doubles. If I had the money, then yea, I would get doubles but I don't so I will rent a pony on dives below 30m. It is very hard to have DIR equipment when you are not rich IMHO.

I would recommend that book though, to any diver, as it really showed me which skills I am not practiced enough in and also better gear configurations, which I am slowly obtaining. I think some nutty DIR-advocates put people off though as they do not seem to accept any dissent from DIR diving guidelines and think that anybody who does not follow them are idiots. I think they are just people who are happy to take on slightly more risk. Like rebreather divers for example.

Another thing I do not agree with is that DIR gear is the best option for every style of diving. Like BCDG has other gear configurations and they have been cave diving since the 30s I believe so there is more than one option for very safe diving gear for cave diving. Just my 2c.

 

[daniel f aleman]

But I seriously doubt that someone, at depth and without warning, who goes out of gas, could remain perfectly composed for two minutes while arranging a source for breathing gas.

Training yourself not to panic is first and foremost in controling a diving problem.

In recreational diving: if a well-trained diver ever finds himself out of gas at depth, he'll always have at his side the correct sized pony full of air...

 

[WarrenZ]

Lets agree that DIR or not when you either use up or suffer a failure resulting in an OOG situation that the lack of gas will be ever present in your mind. Regardless of your training agency or its methodology you should have a plan for gas management and an OOG event be it buddy, pony/stages, or doubles.

It dosent matter if you have the ability to calmly and politely ask your teammate to bum a reg or if your swimming ability allows you to make a mad dash for the surface; you will be able to continue to search for air either for the rest of your life or until breathable gas is obtained.

 

[TSandM]

Another thing I find restrictive is that ponies are considered useless and that one should use doubles.

This is actually a misconception. Ponies are considered UNNECESSARY, because one either decides the risk of the dive is high enough to require doubles, or one dives with a well-trained and attentive buddy, who is capable of donating gas, should that be required. And all divers have reserved adequate gas to get two divers to the surface (or the first gas switch, in technical diving). It is not at all necessary to own doubles to do DIR dives. It IS necessary to have good skills and strong situational awareness.

 

[daniel f aleman]

By definition, a buddy is not a redundant gas source. And to say that a pony is "UNNECESSARY" based on other criteria is one thing, but you can't say that the pony is not another source of gas.

 

[Sas]

This is actually a misconception. Ponies are considered UNNECESSARY, because one either decides the risk of the dive is high enough to require doubles, or one dives with a well-trained and attentive buddy, who is capable of donating gas, should that be required. And all divers have reserved adequate gas to get two divers to the surface (or the first gas switch, in technical diving). It is not at all necessary to own doubles to do DIR dives. It IS necessary to have good skills and strong situational awareness.

Either way, I can't afford doubles so I will use a pony instead when I do deeper dives as that will provide a safety margin for me. It still provides me with a redundant source of gas that will get me to the surface if my main source fails. This comes back to how there are other safe configurations that are not DIR. The DIR people that have stood out most to me are the ones that bag people out for using ponies, and say that their way is the only safe way to dive.

 

[Thalassamania]

All of our students can hold their breath for two minutes. Most accomplish this the second pool session. It is really no big deal, I can do it with anyone.

That said ... during training they can fall back on the comfort of knowing that whatever exercise we throw at them they can perform it slowly and methodically, because slowly and methodically all exercises can be done on under 30 seconds.

Thus their training proceeds at a much more rapid clip. I was not suggesting that a two minute breath hold was one of the emergency procedures and the our divers were at less risk because they can accomplish this. What I was advancing is the notion that significant breath hold ability makes training easier and is a great "reserve chute" when you get to open water (that means that you know you can do an ESE from 120 feet at 60 feet per minute).

Remember that my comment was based on what some folks refer to as GUE being "cave-blind," that is to say, advocating a training program that is heavily biased by GUE's platinum edged cave experience and accomplishments and being condescending toward what some of us see as critical base-level open water skills.

What's the proper response to OOA? It's not to hold your breath for two minutes, its to use your backup, fix your gear, and/or look to your buddy ... just as GUE teaches. But it's nice, back in the recesses of your mind, to know that you can. It's a warm fuzzy feeling.