Mask on forehead=panic. Where did this mask signal originate?

[NW Dive Dawg]

You're saying that if you expose your eyes to salt water at the start of the dive, once they stop stinging, if salt water enter your mask and gets into your eyes later on in the dive, it doesn't sting?

In my SDI / TDS solo course in Bonaire, we had many no mask drills with eyes wide open. Blurred vision...yes. But otherwise no issues. Go to spare mask, clear and then carry on.

 

[MiloR]

Underwater, divers need masks to be divers....without them they are indeed flotsam relegated to the surface.

Underwater is a vague term in this sense. I have done a 30 min dive in FRESH water, with no mask on my face, just to prove to someone it can be done. I was definitely still a diver and definitely not flotsam.

 

[AJ]

Yet another diver who says their eyes don't sting when salt water gets in there.

Maybe it's just a "me" thing.

Mine do sting, but it's tolerable. I rather have them sting before the dive then later on.

 

[MyBuddy]

Salt water doesn't bother my eyes when they are submerged in it. Once they come in contact with air after salt water is when it stings.

This is my experience as well.
Occasionally I’ll take my mask off to rub the inside of the lenses, in an attempt to remedy some obnoxious fogging. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn’t. But while this is being done my eyes are wide open with less discomfort than in a chlorine pool. Once my mask is back on and cleared, I may experience some mild stinging but fluttering my eyes for 10 or so seconds is usually enough to flush out the salt.

 

[Wallowa]

Underwater is a vague term in this sense. I have done a 30 min dive in FRESH water, with no mask on my face, just to prove to someone it can be done. I was definitely still a diver and definitely not flotsam.

Seriously? OK then. Good for you. Glad you proved that.

 

[MiloR]

Seriously? OK then. Good for you. Glad you proved that.

Why so salty? You claimed no mask makes you flotsam (or regarded as worthless according the definition).
I provided first person facts that no mask does NOT make you flotsam in fresh water and others have stated basically the same about saltwater.

The task was done to prove to others that with training and practice challenges can be overcome and panic is not necessary even though some people will claim that things like panic, failure, death, and disgrace are the only outcomes to different situations.

Sorry my experience did not support your personally held opinion/belief.

 

[The Chairman]

Why so salty?

I feel your pain! Part of my cave training is to successfully find the main line without a mask and then exit! I certainly didn't feel like flotsam, either. In fact, I found it not only fun, but exhilarating. I recently did the skills test to become a Raid instructor, and that included swimming 30 feet without a mask. I maintained perfect trim and buoyancy through the whole process. Again, it was fun and exhilarating. I guess that not everyone sees the value.

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes, but do we know where MOF theory originated? Was it ever in print?

I can't speak to the beginning of the concept, but I think I can tell from my own experience as an instructor how it became so popular.

First of all, we have to understand the difference between a signal and a sign. A signal is something you do deliberately to convey information to others. A sign is something that others see in you that leads them to draw a conclusion. A panicked diver does not intentionally signal anything except perhaps shouting for help. There are, however, signs you can spot that can indicate growing panic.

The PADI OW course I taught from the mid 2000's described signs (not signals) that would indicate a diver is panicking. Those signs include equipment rejection, like throwing away the regulator or shoving the mask up . A mask shoved haphazardly off the face could be a sign of panic.

The final exam for the OW course had a question that asked which of the following choices could be a sign of panic. The correct choice was a mask on the forehead. An instructor teaching a class would want the students to do as well as possible, so he or she would likely stress that point, especially in the final review before the exam.

 

[Ty Hamby]

The final exam for the OW course had a question that asked which of the following choices could be a sign of panic. The correct choice was a mask on the forehead. An instructor teaching a class would want the students to do as well as possible, so he or she would likely stress that point, especially in the final review before the exam.

Interesting.

 

[Wallowa]

I feel your pain! Part of my cave training is to successfully find the main line without a mask and then exit! I certainly didn't feel like flotsam, either. In fact, I found it not only fun, but exhilarating. I recently did the skills test to become a Raid instructor, and that included swimming 30 feet without a mask. I maintained perfect trim and buoyancy through the whole process. Again, it was fun and exhilarating. I guess that not everyone sees the value.

Guess the message is not getting across....masks off or on forehead or back of head does not necessarily mean a diver is panicked...that was stated in several post....I assume that was an affront to some who put the mask on backwards or routinely put the mask on their forehead....get over it, no evaluation of you was made....but to brush off the fact that many times panicked divers often try to "escape' by shedding gear including mask goes against actual experience of those who have observed and dealt with panicked divers in the water.....this is not theory...it happens... disregard and you may not recognize a diver needing assistance...

Flotsam....again check how thin skinned you are....the reference was to the fact that loss of a mask disables a diver....sure from perhaps 4,000BC divers have gone without masks underwater....you can swim around UW without a mask; and divers should have this as part of their open water training.....but in our world divers need masks to be fully functional and safe underwater....I have never carried a 'backup' mask but there is a reason divers in overhead environments carry a second mask....can you grope around UW without a mask? Sure. Do you have the same ability to deal with situations without a mask? Of course not. Flotsam....something at the surface that does not does submerge; a diver at the surface without a mask should also not submerge...get it?

Can't believe that these points are contested or denied. Not that I have all the answers to anything but experience has taught me to verify that a diver in the water shedding gear or without a mask may need my help.