Mask on forehead=panic. Where did this mask signal originate?

[Wallowa]

I didn't even know Mandela was a diver.

Yup...took OW Diver lessons in prison....

 

[nadwidny]

If your regulator tends to freeflow on the surface- when it's in your mouth- which I never heard of, replace it with one that has an adjustable flow

Happens a lot in cold weather. When diving below freezing temps the guideline is to not breathe through your reg on the surface as it may freeflow. I've seen it, mostly on Scubapros.

 

[The Chairman]

Well agree that the person assuming the role of rescuer must stay safe

That's covered in a rescue class. So is not trying to reach around a tank to try to put your arm around their neck. Having a tank thrashing around is the last place I want my face close to.

All divers should be trained to handle in water emergencies

Meh. I taught for an agency that had me teach this in Open Water. It was false bravado on their part. Instead, they should have spent more time on trim and neutral buoyancy to eliminate panicked divers. I would rather the divers concentrate on pertinent skills and save rescue skills for a more advanced class. That and their blind adherence to conducting CESAs in OW are a few of the reasons why I no longer teach under their aegis.

 

[Wallowa]

That's covered in a rescue class. So is not trying to reach around a tank to try to put your arm around their neck. Having a tank thrashing around is the last place I want my face close to.

Meh. I taught for an agency that had me teach this in Open Water. It was false bravado on their part. Instead, they should have spent more time on trim and neutral buoyancy to eliminate panicked divers. I would rather the divers concentrate on pertinent skills and save rescue skills for a more advanced class. That and their blind adherence to conducting CESAs in OW are a few of the reasons why I no longer teach under their aegis.

Difference of perspective I guess.....survival skills including self and rescue of others are indeed pertinent...when, not if, it really hits the fan and a life is in danger all the other diver skills will be insufficient to resolve the issue unless practiced rescue training was given....will not even go into ESA topic, whole other can of worms that is but one arrow in the quiver for survival if needed....again, my take, but all skills must be repeatedly trained in OW.... specifically in OW in which the diver will be diving after training, for example quarries are great diving but do not produce the knowledge and skill basis for diving in high energy marine environments....

The instructor not the agency determines the quality and sufficiency of diver training. Yes, if agency prohibited prudent skill training, then agree with jumping ship.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

About diving without a mask, these things happen.

While in the pool harassment segment toward the end of our training at the U.S. Naval School for Underwater Swimmers, Bob Means (my dive buddy) and i simply took off our masks and handed them to the instructors, who were about to harass us. That took one piece of equipment away from them to pull off. We monitored each other’s air and regulator as the instructors tried to get us to the surface. They did not succeed.

There are several scenarios whereby a diver can loose a mask. Some really cheap masks have plastic mask strap holders, and those have been known to break. Or, your buddy’s fin can inadvertently flip up and “unmask” you. Or, as described above, a panicky diver can dislodge it from you.

So being able to continue to function without the mask is a very good survival skill. And, I have never had an extra mask, or “backup mask” for my diving.

SeaRat

 

[AJ]

Because if you splash without a mask and regulator you'll get water in your eyes and up your nose and you won't have the ability to breath underwater, and be unable to react quickly to an issue, many of which occur when exiting or entering the boat.

If your regulator tends to freeflow on the surface- when it's in your mouth- which I never heard of, replace it with one that has an adjustable flow. A regulator is much more likely to freeflow when it's NOT in your mouth.

You really need me to tell you this?

Just make sure there's no issue. If circumstances demand for it I will of course have the reg in my mouth, but there are very few circumstances that demand it. Just get used to function under water without mask and reg under water. It's all part of normal tech diive training.

If you have never witnessed free flowing regs in cold weather/water, you have not dived in really cold water. It's a real thing and it sure will happen.

Did I need you to tell me all this? No, not really. I'am rebreather and cave/mine trained and do deep wreck and cave/mine dives on a regular base. I know what I can and can not do in and under water. Do you too or do you just follow the rules set by the agencies without asking why?

 

[LI-er]

I'am rebreather and cave/mine trained and do deep wreck and cave/mine dives on a regular base. I know what I can and can not do in and under water. Do you too or do you just follow the rules set by the agencies without asking why?

That's like saying "I'm a professional race car driver and I've won a lot of races so I'm going to hop into the car and hit the gas without wearing a helmet or a seatbelt."

It's not about following rules, nor is it about vast experience or impressive certification levels.

I don't see any upside to jumping into water- especially salt water- without my face covered and the ability to breathe underwater.

get used to function under water without mask and reg under water.

That's a great idea and I readily agree that it's a skill that should be practiced periodically during a dive (like many others). But I question doing so at the very start of a dive especially when you're jumping off a boat.

 

[Wallowa]

John...had to smile....what was termed 'harassment' training evolved into 'task loading' to placate those that did not understand the value of training divers to the extent that no matter the issues, they would stay calm and sort it out for a safe conclusion.....tons of examples of exercises to build diver confidence underwater and at the surface which involve stressing them incrementally to produce what I termed a "bullet proof diver"; one that had a very high survival probability regardless of what occurred...reading about it will not produce a safe diver; experiencing it can.

Word about the OP's question. Training is essential but experience becomes the definitive molder of a safe and competent diver. Learning all the 'tells' [indicators] of a stressed or panicked diver does not come to all divers, some never develop the situational awareness to pick up the signs of an impeding or current threat or problem. Shedding of gear, including the mask, is a frequently observed behavior of a panicked diver. Someone mentioned a non-verbal diver as another indication of a non-responsive diver, true; but a diver before or even during a dive at the surface that is chattering and highly verbal can be another indication of a highly nervous or stressed out person to watch.

Regulators can develop ice and free flow due to design, volume/speed of air [venturi] flowing, water/air temps and moisture content of air in bottle. Remember the deeper you dive the higher each inhalation volume [density]/pressure; more gas flowing more cooling. When air temp is well below water temp breathing off the reg at the surface can invite a free flow or having two divers on second stages from one first stage and inflation of BCD can create icing; volume/rate flow can generate icing . Solution is to avoid those parameters or if it occurs to shut off air to reg and allow water to warm the first stage and melt icing. Again, training and experience needed.

AJ....never doubted you understood all this....just my thoughts....but will say that while what is termed Tech Diving adds more variables the principles are the same for all divers.

 

[AJ]

That's like saying "I'm a professional race car driver and I've won a lot of races so I'm going to hop into the car and hit the gas without wearing a helmet or a seatbelt."

It's not about following rules, nor is it about vast experience or impressive certification levels.

I don't see any upside to jumping into water- especially salt water- without my face covered and the ability to breathe underwater.

Let's agree to disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine.

I know what I'am doing and in what circumstances I can do these things safely and when not. That doesn't mean I'am an 'Top gun' diver in any way, just a diver who has learned to do things somewhat differently than what is taught (for a reason that is) in recreational instruction/diving.

 

[LI-er]

Let's agree to disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine.

I know what I'am doing and in what circumstances I can do these things safely and when not. That doesn't mean I'am an 'Top gun' diver in any way, just a diver who has learned to do things somewhat differently than what is taught (for a reason that is) in recreational instruction/diving.

Don't your eyes sting though? There's no getting around that even with experience and training. I wouldn't want to begin a dive like that.