Good IDC for getting PADI OWSI?

[jtivat]

First of all, you said your instructor is an independent and could only take you through AI. PADI has changed this in the past, from the IDCS section of the manual and he or she may not be familiar with the change:
However, I highly recommend the Eastern Academy of Scuba Education in Vero Beach, Fl. The tuition covers room and board in the same place as the training occurs. IDC, Florida, IDC Florida, CDC in Florida. Our PADI IDC, CDC Facility include meals and accommodation. Located in Vero Beach Florida

They are very dedicated into proper prep for your IE and as you eat, sleep and study at the house, your classmates are there to assist you in your studies at night. Be prepared for long hours though, I was up at 6 a.m., studied until 8:30 class until midnight most nights except one and that was 1 a.m. All of the candidates from EASE passed the IE easily, there were some from other IDC's that did not fare as well.

I agree EASE was great!

 

[Thalassamania]

My ignore list is rather empty so I have plenty of room on it for anyone who wants to make an immature and/or idiotic response to my legitimate question. I fail to see the issue here anyway..god forbid I actually want to be well-trained instead of just another zero-to-hero instructor huh?

Any realistic response, considering that you've made < 24 dives and are a sophomore in college with dreams of a career in marine biology and owning dive shop, well, while I admire your gumption, your hubris concerns me ... I suspect that you wouldn't want to hear it. Why don't you just add me to it now and save us both the trouble.

 

[emttim]

Any realistic response, considering that you've made < 24 dives and are a sophomore in college with dreams of a career in marine biology and owning dive shop, well, while I admire your gumption, your hubris concerns me ... I suspect that you wouldn't want to hear it. Why don't you just add me to it now and save us both the trouble.

Actually I've been in college for 3 years and I'm only a year or two away from finishing, which sets me a great distance apart from sophomores. Plus I'm not an idiot like most college students, so I shouldn't be lumped in with the majority of them anyway. The typical college student has no real life experience, no work experience, and no common sense. I have all of the aforementioned.

I don't know why the assumption would be made that I want to have a career in marine biology just because I'm majoring in it. Why would I get a career in a field that is very small and extremely difficult to get a job in, and even if you do get a job, doesn't pay that well? On the subject of degrees, why would I get an MBA if I plan to work in marine biology instead of business? That makes no sense.

As far as hearing it goes, I'm more than welcoming of constructive criticism. The problem is I've noticed that there's a large amount of people on this board who offer criticism that is neither constructive, rational or sometimes even relevant to the discussion at hand. I'm happy to discuss barriers, limitations or other forms of constructive criticism. What I will put someone on ignore for is if they do not give me the common courtesy of trying to have an intelligent discussion. If I have more maturity than someone who is trying to talk to me about my career goals, I see no reason why I should give them my time since I have a limited amount of it and therefore should not waste it.

And as a side note, I might add that it appears that a large amount of people who would offer advice on owning a dive shop have no experience in it themselves, so I don't see why they would consider themselves well informed enough to comment on it anyway. Working for a dive shop doesn't really qualify...working for a company gives you insight to that industry but it does not make you well informed on it. I worked for an insurance company, doesn't mean I'm an expert on insurance. The same applies to any industry.

 

[Don Wray]

Thal has many years of dealing with college students and diving...he is of the school that he tells you the truth that sometimes may not be what you want to hear. While I try to encourage, it is good sometimes to take into account someone who has been there. Again, you will probably not become rich in the diving industry, you may well find it rewarding in other areas. While I don't always like what Thal has to say, I still listen. Then again, I wish I was on the big Island too.

 

[fisherdvm]

I think you might have too many goals set, and they might be counterproductive. MBA and diveshop ownership. I would set one goal at a time, achieve it, and slowly move on. I think your goal should be a little slower, get more dives, get rescue, and maybe consider getting your divemaster or complete some scientific dive training through your college program. Alot of goal for someone - emergency medicine physician, MBA, marine biology, diveshop ownership. All doable over a lifetime. I think you're just moving too fast. I've been a manager, officer in charge, own and ran my own business .... and it isn't easy. One goal at a time. An MBA isn't going to prepare you for running a diveshop, it certainly can help. Just one step at a time. Enjoy life... dive some more. You have got too many lofty goals... achieving any one of them over the next 5 year is commendable.

My guess is that you're going to make more bucks an hour working at Starbuck at your college, than working part time as a scuba instructor. You've got about 10 years of college ahead of you, and someone has to finance it.... I joined the Army... It is not a bad deal.

 

[emttim]

I think you might have too many goals set, and they might be counterproductive. MBA and diveshop ownership. I would set one goal at a time, achieve it, and slowly move on. I think your goal should be a little slower, get more dives, get rescue, and maybe consider getting your divemaster or complete some scientific dive training through your college program. Alot of goal for someone - emergency medicine physician, MBA, marine biology, diveshop ownership. All doable over a lifetime. I think you're just moving too fast. I've been a manager, officer in charge, own and ran my own business .... and it isn't easy. One goal at a time. An MBA isn't going to prepare you for running a diveshop, it certainly can help. Just one step at a time. Enjoy life... dive some more. You have got too many lofty goals... achieving any one of them over the next 5 year is commendable.

My guess is that you're going to make more bucks an hour working at Starbuck at your college, than working part time as a scuba instructor. You've got about 10 years of college ahead of you, and someone has to finance it.... I joined the Army... It is not a bad deal.

Well, that's my one fatal flaw is I probably do think too far into the future, but I figure if I don't, then I'm probably going to wake up one morning when I'm 40, wonder what the hell happened, and I'll have to scramble to get done what I want to get done.

To clarify stuff, I'm pretty much dumping the physician goals because I've done enough research on the topic of health care to know that the environment is just too toxic, both compensation-wise and legally, for someone to go 200,000 dollars into debt to become a physician. If I have a science degree, I am more than prepared to apply to medical school at any time in my life, but I highly doubt I will since I love helping people but I refuse to do it for free as a career. Especially if I have to go into that much debt to do so. I think volunteering is great but most people do it on the side a few hours a week, so that's different.

I don't plan to get a career in marine biology. MBA schools, just like medical school, fortunately do not care what your major is in so I figure I'll just get a degree in something that interests me. It looks like most businesses could care less what your degree is in anyway; they just want you to have a degree. I know that an MBA doesn't necessarily prepare someone for running a dive shop, or any other kind of business, but I subscribe to the school of thought that someone should have training in whatever they want to do. I tried the Army actually, got six stress fractures in infantry basic so didn't finish, but I did walk away with a training-oriented approach toward life. I would join the military otherwise to pay for college...being a Navy diver and doing college on the side while being active duty probably wouldn't be a bad gig, but once you get a crappy re-enlistment code, your ass is grass as far as re-enlisting goes. *shrugs* I'm over it, it's just not for me.

It'll only take me 2 years to finish my degree and 2 years for MBA, so only 4 years of college left for me, thankfully. I'm not in a rush anyway, even if it may look like I am. To be honest with you, I like the college lifestyle, I'm completely happy right now (outside being perpetually poor anyway). I just want to know what I'm going to do afterwards.

I don't expect to get rich owning my own business. I'll settle for being able to pay my bills, live decently and dive a lot. I suspect I'll be happier doing that than a lot of people who make a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[Thalassamania]

Actually I've been in college for 3 years and I'm only a year or two away from finishing, which sets me a great distance apart from sophomores. Plus I'm not an idiot like most college students, so I shouldn't be lumped in with the majority of them anyway. The typical college student has no real life experience, no work experience, and no common sense. I have all of the aforementioned.

I warned you, you should have put me on ignore. Last time I checked it is 2008, if you in the class of 2010 then 2009 will be your Jr. year, 2010 will be you senior year ... that make ... wait, wait, don't tell me ... 2008 must be your ... sophomore year, or you're a little slow. But that's OK, I took six years getting my degree, they finally forced me to take and leave. I was having way too good a time.

I don't know why the assumption would be made that I want to have a career in marine biology just because I'm majoring in it. Why would I get a career in a field that is very small and extremely difficult to get a job in, and even if you do get a job, doesn't pay that well? On the subject of degrees, why would I get an MBA if I plan to work in marine biology instead of business? That makes no sense.

From your approach I didn't expect you to planning on actually making a career in science, it's really hard work ... and you're correct, while the company's great, and the travel's superb, and the work's interesting, ... the pays sucks.

As far as hearing it goes, I'm more than welcoming of constructive criticism. The problem is I've noticed that there's a large amount of people on this board who offer criticism that is neither constructive, rational or sometimes even relevant to the discussion at hand. I'm happy to discuss barriers, limitations or other forms of constructive criticism. What I will put someone on ignore for is if they do not give me the common courtesy of trying to have an intelligent discussion. If I have more maturity than someone who is trying to talk to me about my career goals, I see no reason why I should give them my time since I have a limited amount of it and therefore should not waste it.

Please, put me on ignore ... we'll both be happier. Either that or learn a little humility, at least in till your earned a place in the world as a certified and jaded curmudgeon.

And as a side note, I might add that it appears that a large amount of people who would offer advice on owning a dive shop have no experience in it themselves, so I don't see why they would consider themselves well informed enough to comment on it anyway. Working for a dive shop doesn't really qualify...working for a company gives you insight to that industry but it does not make you well informed on it. I worked for an insurance company, doesn't mean I'm an expert on insurance. The same applies to any industry.

I've been a careful observer of the industry of about 40 years, my advice to you is to run for the hills. Retail diving is a very sick industry with little of no hope of recovery. Operating a resort or dive boat, on the other hand, or a strictly educational facility (which I do not think PADI will let you do) might be a better bet. But I'd happily make book on not becoming even a PADI CD, though it sounds to me like you might fit right in.

Well, that's my one fatal flaw is I probably do think too far into the future, but I figure if I don't, then I'm probably going to wake up one morning when I'm 40, wonder what the hell happened, and I'll have to scramble to get done what I want to get done.

I hate to tell you but the last mango in Paris is long gone, so is the last plane out of Saigon, there are no more slow boats from China, and we rammed the Tiki into a reef a while back.

To clarify stuff, I'm pretty much dumping the physician goals because I've done enough research on the topic of health care to know that the environment is just too toxic, both compensation-wise and legally, for someone to go 200,000 dollars into debt to become a physician. If I have a science degree, I am more than prepared to apply to medical school at any time in my life, but I highly doubt I will since I love helping people but I refuse to do it for free as a career.
Especially if I have to go into that much debt to do so. I think volunteering is great but most people do it on the side a few hours a week, so that's different.

Have you considered becoming a lawyer? You might find that you are well suited to chasing that end of the ambulance.

I don't plan to get a career in marine biology. MBA schools, just like medical school, fortunately do not care what your major is in so I figure I'll just get a degree in something that interests me. It looks like most businesses could care less what your degree is in anyway; they just want you to have a degree. I know that an MBA doesn't necessarily prepare someone for running a dive shop, or any other kind of business, but I subscribe to the school of thought that someone should have training in whatever they want to do. I tried the Army actually, got six stress fractures in infantry basic so didn't finish, but I did walk away with a training-oriented approach toward life. I would join the military otherwise to pay for college...being a Navy diver and doing college on the side while being active duty probably wouldn't be a bad gig, but once you get a crappy re-enlistment code, your ass is grass as far as re-enlisting goes. *shrugs* I'm over it, it's just not for me.

It'll only take me 2 years to finish my degree and 2 years for MBA, so only 4 years of college left for me, thankfully. I'm not in a rush anyway, even if it may look like I am. To be honest with you, I like the college lifestyle, I'm completely happy right now (outside being perpetually poor anyway). I just want to know what I'm going to do afterwards.

I don't expect to get rich owning my own business. I'll settle for being able to pay my bills, live decently and dive a lot. I suspect I'll be happier doing that than a lot of people who make a ridiculous amount of money.

I guess you'll never grow up to be one of the people your parents warned you about ... too bad, I'm willing to bet that with a little less planning and a lot less care and attention to detail you could have what it takes to make a mark rather than a fortune.

I'm warning you put me on ignore ... otherwise one morning you may wake up and find yourself going down the road faster than you should, in whatever the current version is of a red convertible, and with whomever would pass on that day for a Samoan lawyer. Like my buddy Tito said, "We have no idea what happen to the Airstream, it was there when we left Boston, but when we just got to the Pacific ... that sucker was gone!

 

[fisherdvm]

I can not help but noted that you said $200,000 in debt to become a physician is too much. Then you've not looked at the dive industry. You also said that as a physician, you are working for "free". Actually, most of us bring in at least $150 K a year, and around $35K during residency. So I really don't work for free.

A dive shop in a nice area of Miami is necessary (most diver are middle to upper middle class), and the rent is likely $3000-5000 a month. Build in cost and remodelling likely will be over $50,000. Inventory will likely be $70,000. First year staff income and your own income will likely be near $60,000.

So right off the bat, you are about $200,000 in debt, just for the first year, and barely earning a penny.

Hopefully, your MBA will point this out. Opening a business is very difficult. A little dump in the inner city selling and servicing used scuba gears out of a pawn shop is doable. But a thriving successful dive shop is going to be very expensive, competitive and difficult. I would not go into it without at least $200,000 of liquid asset. Whereas a scuba diver "education" (using the word loosely) is doable over 30 days for less than $4000.

I find that one of the most successful dive shop in our area is located on a very busy (extremely busy) road in the center of wealthy area. They specialize only on Scubapro product (keeping inventory down). All the instructors and students use Scubapro with Air2. They run a class every week, renting the pool TWICE a week.... Pretty darn successful considering that the rest of the LDS use their pool only TWICE a month.

So the answer is location, location, location... And it is going to be very expensive locations. Miami in my opinion is just not a good location for a dive shop. You've so many competitors. Most folks would just drive down Key Largo, barely an hour away, and can shop at 20 plus discount dive shops. I imagine down there, folks are not going to want to do confined water training (if you don't have a boat).

Add the cost of a good boat ($100000), one or two captains, two or three DM's. Your operating cost will jump over $400K easily. Well, since you're going to be wearing many hats - you might earn your captain certificate while you're at it.

 

[Trixxie]

First year staff income and your own income will likely be near $60,000.

Add the cost of a good boat ($100000), one or two captains, two or three DM's. Your operating cost will jump over $400K easily. Well, since you're going to be wearing many hats - you might earn your captain certificate while you're at it.

He wants to be a CD so he doesn't have to have any 'staff' - remember? He can do it all w/o having to deal with any of the little people.

Wonder if captains school has a 'fast track' too?

Have you even looked at the requirements for MSDT, IDC Staff and Master Instructor let alone CD? If you come across to your students 1/2 as arrogant as you do here, you may have trouble getting the required number of each cert it takes to achieve the next higher level. AKA: you won't have any repeat students wanting to continue their education with you... just in case it wasn't quite clear. :blinking:

reminds me of a song that I heard yesterday by Montgomery Gentry "back when I knew it all".

 

[Sas]

Ok just thought I throw in some advice, same age as emttim but no offense mate your attitude reminds me of myself about 4 years ago when I thought I knew everything and had my next 15 years planned out . I have finished seven years of college last year and have changed my mind about my long term career future about three times in that period. Two years into college is not a lot, who knows what you will want to do in after another few years? When I was 17 I got a job in accounting and thought that was my life career, at 19 I picked my Economics major and thought I'd go with a career in that. At 23 I am now working in IT! Who knows what it will be in another few years (diving instructor?? ) These days I have realised that I am more likely to miss out on what I really want to do if I decide to pick one thing and stick with it. My only consistent loves have been marine life + wrecks (hence the diving) and mathematics! Keep your mind open and don't be too proud to change it.

Re your current goal: I have run my own business as well as other work and study for 3 years, my partner also has for about 10 years - from my experience, you really have to know the industry (this applies to all industries, not just diving) you want to get into *very* well before making such concrete plans you have mentioned here. 0-24 dives and little training is not knowing the dive industry well enough to be setting such concrete plans.

Well, I'm not your average student. I destroy exams in classes that most people flunk out of after half the semester such as general chemistry, calculus, etc. The academic side of it doesn't worry me at all. I'm aware of the sacrifice I'll be making by going straight from Rescue to DM, but honestly, I probably won't progress past DM for a very long time unless I get my MBA in or near Florida. I'm not aware of any top business school in Florida, so I probably won't get my MBA there.

Also, on a separate note, this doesn't endear people to you in places like an internet forum as you have no way of backing it up and it just makes you look arrogant (even if it is true!). Again this points to a lack of self-reflection about how you come across to the rest of the world which you will really need to work out before putting any of your big plans into action.

I mean this as constructive criticism and apologies if it comes out harsh! Hard to convey things like these over a forum... My 2c.