So, what is the point of AOW???

[evil_xander]

To the OP, I don't know the point now, perhaps it did have one way back...

I'm still only OWD, learned a lot from the people I dive with, learned a lot here, practised things on my own, read a lot offline, learning new stuff daily.

I will take care of the AOWD C Card during next spring just so that nobody can make it a problem. I will basically just pay for the card, not because I want it though.

I'm on the other hand going to do the GUE-F course in February, for a big lump of money (and my nerves coordinating 3 different people and the instructor, the venue and infrastructure), but I reckon it's worth it. Hopefully it will be.

Education is perpetual thing, I just happen to be picky for what I'm spending my money. AOWD as done by all major agencies and instructors for me has literally 0 return on investment.

YMMV.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Of course, GUE fundamentals came up, but it won't get me on those dive boats and besides,

That might depend on who's running the boat. While some outfits do have certification minimums, meeting those minimums might not get on either.

Any crew familiar with what is taught is very likely to respect a DIRF ticket a whole lot more than an AOW. Regardless of what one thinks of GUE or DIR, ther demonstrably is NO comparison between the skill level of the average DIRF grad and the average AOW grad.

But, again, we're back to buying access here.

my mask is the wrong color, I don't have a dive knife, my regulator hose is too short, my BC has some sort of bungee or elastic on it and most importantly, I don't use a crotch strap for diving, and don't intend to start, so GUE is out.

At least no one has yet said that if I get an AOW card I'm gonna die!!!!

I'll let you know how the course goes.

GUE does have some equipment requirements but I'm not so sure it would be as much of a problem as you suggest. Still I wish there was another agency who taught rec courses to the same level of standards that was a little more flexible but, as far as I know, there isn't.

I wouldn't say that you will die if you get an AOW card but I think if you do a little research you'll see that quite a few students have been hurt on AOW deep dives. IMO, that's just because they take divers deep before they learn to dive shallow. It almost boggles my mind that the agency hasn't addressed this but as standards are written, they place the responsibility on the instructor. An OW course doesn't require any real diving skill on the part of the student but the AOW standards state that the instructor is responsible for assessing the divers skills. Talk about a "catch-22".

I would not want a loved one of mine taking this course as it's most often taught and there are ways around it. You can take some other con-ed and get in some dives and still meet the entry requirements for a rescue class. Once you have a rescue ticket no one will ask for an AOW. Other agencies have courses that will meet most oporators requirements for more advanced training that you can get into without having an PADI AOW course.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Any crew familiar with what is taught is very likely to respect a DIRF ticket a whole lot more than an AOW. Regardless of what one thinks of GUE or DIR, ther demonstrably is NO comparison between the skill level of the average DIRF grad and the average AOW grad.

While I have tremendous respect for the value of a GUE F class, nothing in that class prepares a student for deeper diving. With the exception of some gas management rules of thumb (which should apply to every dive), the entire class was focused on basic skills, and the dives were conducted in shallow water ... ours never went below 25 fsw.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Horn]

When wil the cert agencies listen? Aow......ugh........

 

[MikeFerrara]

While I have tremendous respect for the value of a GUE F class, nothing in that class prepares a student for deeper diving. With the exception of some gas management rules of thumb (which should apply to every dive), the entire class was focused on basic skills, and the dives were conducted in shallow water ... ours never went below 25 fsw.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I understand what you're saying but those basic skills come in real handy on a deep dive. I think it's best to learn them before going deep.

Reading through the PADI AOW standards, I can see that those basic skills aren't taught. Actually, I see that they aren't taught in any class. They just go deep. I see also that there are no performance requirements that the student demonstrate those basic skills before or during that deep dive. I also can't help but notice that gas management isn't covered in the text or performance requirements.

So, I gather, from reading the standards of the AOW course that there is NOTHING in the class that prepares the student for deep diving. They are just taken there without being prepared.

Now, is when someone once again points out that the standards are only the minimums...Great but I've seen lots of AOW classes and what's taught is exactly what is in the standards...the minimums.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Mike I agree with you ... but I just don't feel that railing against the agencies is going to accomplish much. Best I can do is try to make sure that the divers I train acquire those skills.

Ultimately it boils down the instructor ... I've worked with some great ones and some really lame ones. When I was a DM, I helped one instructor out with an AOW class who actually PLANNED to run his student out of air on the way up from their deep dive. Personally I think that's a really stupid thing to do ... but there's nothing in the standards preventing it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nick_W]

Any crew familiar with what is taught is very likely to respect a DIRF ticket a whole lot more than an AOW. Regardless of what one thinks of GUE or DIR, ther demonstrably is NO comparison between the skill level of the average DIRF grad and the average AOW grad.

[RANT]
Actually, I'm more likely to think the guy with the DIRF card is a condescending poopyhead (I apologize for the original, offesive word) who thinks he's one of the best divers in the world and needs no advice from anyone (unless they're DIR) because he paid a lot of money to go through a training course and was told by his instructor that GUE was the greatest thing in the world and oh by the way if he wants to be even more awesomer he should give Jarrod Jablonski even more of his money and go buy himself some overpriced Halcyon gear because we all know you aren't a real diver until you've done your part to build JJ's wealth.
[/RANT]

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

:canofworms:
:focus:

 

[Couv]

:canofworms:
:focus:

You made me come all the way over here to see the above!?
:mooner:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You made me come all the way over here to see the above!?
:mooner:

... and what a long, strange trip it's been ...

Nice avatar ... one of my all-time favorite albums ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)