Why NOT DIR?

[limeyx]

In the case cited, you could tell by (1) knowing what DIR means, and (2) applying that knowledge to someone solo-diving. That's it. End of knowledge needed. He didn't have to ask to see a GUE card, he didn't need to look at the guy's gear. He just had to know what the term meant, and apply it to what the guy was saying. The incongruence was enough. Knowing DIR does not equal solo diving (was worried you were missing this for a few posts there), is not an unreasonable bit of knowledge to expect someone to have before criticizing the approach. Almost everyone I've met who has something negative to say about "DIR" divers hasn't actually met any actual DIR divers. I don't think that needs defending.

First off, I mean how can someone else not on that boat know the person is not DIR?
Answer: You probably can't. Also my point was that the only problem with what the original poster wrote was that they missed a "claimed to be"

if we are going to respond to simple mistakes in the way that you did, as you can see, given that (I think) the original poster has just given up and gone away, then you are in fact yourself a "reason for not DIR" -- one of the things DIR divers have been criticized for, and then we all say "What me, I am as gentle as a mouse and wouldn't put anyone off"

It's not a question of "defending" (at least not to start with) unless you assume the person you are talking with is "attacking" rather than being misinformed. If you assume mis-informed, maybe your answer might be less likely to drive them away ? If you always assume they are "attacking" then no wonder we drive reasonable people away


And I think I have a pretty decent idea of what is DIR or not.

 

[limeyx]

Agree (duh). That said, I didn't post for the sake of trying to "teach". I posted to point out why his post was wrong. I'll leave the ambassadorship to others. Jeff probably wouldn't be so good either.

So then dont get all surprised when you hear "people are driven away from DIR by Internet DIR-zealots" because (at least to the people that have given up)

a) it's true
b) you are one of those people.

i think it is incumbent on all people with to try to be ambassadors for the things they believe in as much as possible if other people ask questions or make comments -- what do we really gain by irritating/driving people away ?

 

[Rainer]

First off, I mean how can someone else not on that boat know the person is not DIR?
Answer: You probably can't. Also my point was that the only problem with what the original poster wrote was that they missed a "claimed to be"

if we are going to respond to simple mistakes in the way that you did, as you can see, given that (I think) the original poster has just given up and gone away, then you are in fact yourself a "reason for not DIR" -- one of the things DIR divers have been criticized for, and then we all say "What me, I am as gentle as a mouse and wouldn't put anyone off"

It's not a question of "defending" (at least not to start with) unless you assume the person you are talking with is "attacking" rather than being misinformed. If you assume mis-informed, maybe your answer might be less likely to drive them away ? If you always assume they are "attacking" then no wonder we drive reasonable people away


And I think I have a pretty decent idea of what is DIR or not.

I would have posted the same thing if I wasn't DIR. If that scares people away from DIR, well, I'm not too concerned. If it scares them away from me, I could at least understand it!

 

[limeyx]

Maybe, a new thread should be started. "How to identify a DIR diver?"

I know it would be tough. You actually have to know something about it to make a call.

Yeah, because the tattoos and branding marks are usually hidden by the drysuits ...

 

[JeffG]

Yeah, because the tattoos and branding marks are usually hidden by the drysuits ...

But the horns are usually visible.

 

[Rainer]

So then dont get all surprised when you hear "people are driven away from DIR by Internet DIR-zealots" because (at least to the people that have given up)

a) it's true
b) you are one of those people.

i think it is incumbent on all people with to try to be ambassadors for the things they believe in as much as possible if other people ask questions or make comments -- what do we really gain by irritating/driving people away ?

If someone is so dumb to ascribe what I say to me being DIR, I won't lose any sleep over it. They might as well ascribe it to any one of a million things. It would seem I believe people have a deeper sense of logic than your (1) - (2) system of deduction.

 

[Kingpatzer]

A GUE education (or an AG NAUI education) is just that. Dive education. It doesn't make you DIR. It gives you a skill set in which to pull off a dive. The specific skill set that they teach is a DIR one, but it doesn't mean that what you actually do in the real world is DIR.

Real <insert group here> don't do < insert abominable action here>, therefore anyone who did <insert abominable action here> isn't really <insert group here>.

It's a bad counter-argument. Regardless of if it's Christians murdering abortion clinic doctors or Muslims flying planes into buildings or DIR divers diving solo.

If you identify yourself as a member of a group, and other members of that group accept that identification, then you're a member of the group. As such, your actions are performed by a member of the group and reflect upon the group.

The question of if that behavior is normative for the group or not is a different question, and might be part of a reasonable discussion. But you can't simply disown everyone who does something that reflects poorly on the groups you belong to.

 

[JeffG]

Real <insert group here> don't do < insert abominable action here>, therefore anyone who did <insert abominable action here> isn't really <insert group here>.

It's a bad counter-argument. Regardless of if it's Christians murdering abortion clinic doctors or Muslims flying planes into buildings or DIR divers diving solo.

If you identify yourself as a member of a group, and other members of that group accept that identification, then you're a member of the group. As such, your actions are performed by a member of the group and reflect upon the group.

The question of if that behavior is normative for the group or not is a different question, and might be part of a reasonable discussion. But you can't simply disown everyone who does something that reflects poorly on the groups you belong to.

Whatever. Ask me if I care.

 

[Rainer]

Whatever. Ask me if I care.

Jeff, do you care?

 

[limeyx]

It would seem I believe people have a deeper sense of logic than your (1) - (2) system of deduction.

Now I really am realizing why I try to stay the heck out of this quagmire.

EDIT: my original post may have made it seem I was calling people "dumb"
edited to remove any more mud-slinging than we already have.