An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[passeparici]

From CMAS, the old standard for three stars:
"This training programme aims at introducing the fundamentals of dive leadership to experienced certified CMAS Two Star Divers, which will enable them to plan, organise and conduct their dives and lead other sport divers in open water, to a maximum depth of fifty six (56) meters in a safe and competent manner."

https://archives.cmas.org/document?fileId=2157&language=1

The new and current standard:

https://www.cmas.org/document/three-star-diver-2023-bod-208/download.html

"Dive to a maximum depth of 40 metres if accompanied by a diver with same
level or equivalent according to the national and local legal requirements."

I was certified under the old standard to three stars and divemaster in 1999 and the four star did not exist.

Current CMAS technical diving standard states a max ppo2 1.4 and END 40meter

https://www.cmas.org/document/cmas-trimix-diver-and-instructor-standards/download.html

As an instructional rating holder it is your responsibility to keep up with the standards.
@passeparici can you please link to a current CMAS standard that allows 60 m on a regular basis?

I said CMAS for people here to understand because we do the FFESSM (French federation which is affiliated to the CMAS) training (N3) and it allows us to go down to 60. When we have the N3 we have the equivalence of CMAS ***

This is what CMAS says :

"A CMAS Three Star Diver is qualified to dive within the following parameters:
5.1. Dive to a maximum depth of 40 metres if accompanied by a diver with same level or equivalent according to the national and local legal requirements.
5.2. If he has received advanced additional training that includes decompression diving, the risks of deep diving and the organisation of specific safety he can dive to a maximum PpO2 1.4 bar according to the regulation and standards of the national federation."

Our N3 offers this addition training :
So it is deeper than 40 m and close to 60 m (56 m) for the CMAS *** card with additional training and 40 m is not the END as stated in your quote

 

[passeparici]

the CMAS standard say 40 metres for 3 star divers
and France answers 60 metres for the same level …

France does what she wants with scuba diving (don't forget that we are the originators of scuba diving... joke)
And cmas does not dispute this, because France is the main supplier of certifications.
And so, the main supplier of money !
look at the board of directors of cmas : half are French …

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

In addition to organizing international underwater sport events it is at the forefront of technical and scientific research and development. It can be associate

www.cmas.org

56 m with additional training So with our N3 that includes this additional training, France is not far off with 60 m It is just we had to be a bit different (if not we would not be French hehe)

Concerning this thread I think the other agencies have something to sell. And they are certainly right to say it is safer to use other gas than air to go as far as 60 m but they say it so loud ( they need to sell their training also ) that divers now think that is the only method ! Is it ? Obviously not, not as safe but safe enough in certain conditions, that's what the French federation (and me) thinks...

 

[SelfDiver]

56 m with additional training So with our N3 that includes this additional training, France is not far off with 60 m It is just we had to be a bit different (if not we would not be French hehe)

Concerning this thread I think the other agencies have something to sell. And they are certainly right to say it is safer to use other gas than air to go as far as 60 m but they say it so loud ( they need to sell their training also ) that divers now think that is the only method ! Is it ? Obviously not, not as safe but safe enough in certain conditions, that's what the French federation (and me) thinks...

My two braincells decided that CMAS 3 star says nothing about END of 40m because max depth is 40m (under the new standard.)
So if I am interpreting "With additional training" to be the technical diving standard with the normoxic Trimix to 60m and that is the END 40m limit.
If I recall correctly, the old standard 56m came from 66-10=56 where 66m=7.6ata=1.6ppo2/0.21fo2
Where 1.6 was the max allowed ppo2
And fo2 of 0.21 is the Oxygen fraction from air.
Instructors were allowed to dive to 66m. The justification/logic was that you were supposed to be able to certify 3 star students to 56m so instructors should be "more"?
So obviously, young instructors (with more ego than brain) would dive to 70m on air to prove how manly and strong they are.

But hey, I am just an idiot on the internet.

 

[bardass]

If I recall correctly, the old standard 56m came from 66-10=56 where 66m=7.6ata=1.6ppo2/0.21fo2
Where 1.6 was the max allowed ppo2
And fo2 of 0.21 is the Oxygen fraction from air.
Instructors were allowed to dive to 66m. The justification/logic was that you were supposed to be able to certify 3 star students to 56m so instructors should be "more"?
So obviously, young instructors (with more ego than brain) would dive to 70m on air to prove how manly and strong they are.

But hey, I am just an idiot on the internet.

nope : 56m came from 1,4b ppO2 / 0,21b fO2 = 6,6 = 56m

"5.2. If he has received advanced additional training that includes decompression diving, the risks of deep diving and the organisation of specific safety he can dive to a maximum PpO2 1.4 bar according to the regulation and standards of the national federation."

 

[Underwater Tourist]

Why do French tanks have rearview mirrors? So the driver can see the battlefield

For sale: French rifle. Never used - only dropped once.

For those who couldn't run in time, French military invented - camouflage!

 

[passeparici]

nope : 56m came from 1,4b ppO2 / 0,21b fO2 = 6,6 = 56m

"5.2. If he has received advanced additional training that includes decompression diving, the risks of deep diving and the organisation of specific safety he can dive to a maximum PpO2 1.4 bar according to the regulation and standards of the national federation."

+1

@SelfDiver but additional training never stops, so why not trimix...

 

[SelfDiver]

nope : 56m came from 1,4b ppO2 / 0,21b fO2 = 6,6 = 56m

"5.2. If he has received advanced additional training that includes decompression diving, the risks of deep diving and the organisation of specific safety he can dive to a maximum PpO2 1.4 bar according to the regulation and standards of the national federation."

What is more believable?
It came from instructors' fragile ego getting bruised that some lowly 3 star diver can dive to 56 so they need to go deeper.
The ego can rationalize anything.
Since when do dive agencies make decisions based on rational scientific basis?
CMAS are French, not German.

 

[bardass]

What is more believable?
It came from instructors' fragile ego getting bruised that some lowly 3 star diver can dive to 56 so they need to go deeper.
The ego can rationalize anything.
Since when do dive agencies make decisions based on rational scientific basis?
CMAS are French, not German.

i do not understand

 

[SelfDiver]

i do not understand

Ignore my brain dead ramblings
I ate too many crayons

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Back when AOW meant something.

Oh god don't start that! Boulderjohn and Tursiops will jump all over you like a tarantula on a bug.