DIN vs YOKE (USA)?

[gamon]

@Nemrod: Thank you for attempting to provide reasons that DIN is superior to yoke, and giving me the opportunity to scrutinize and debunk them.

DIN does not have the entanglement hazard that a yoke knob presents.

Ah the old "you're going to snag (a suicide clip/retractor/yoke valve/split fin, etc) on a fishing line in a wreck and die!". I read about that happening once in a book about fatalities on the Andea Doria (and that guy was probably diving DIN). Perhaps some hard digging will find an example of a recreational diver losing their life due to a yoke valve entanglement but until then, that particular given reason is moot.

And DIN does not have a built in lever (the knob) that could sustain an impact and provide a bending moment to the assembly as does yoke.

How many examples can you provide where a yoke valve impacted an object and caused a catastrophic life endangering failure? If you or anyone else can give... let's say, 3 examples, I'll post a retraction. Wait, never mind, after thinking about it, I'll settle for just one example.

DIN has a captured O-ring to make the seal whereas the yoke interface is not fully captured (IMO) and can thus extrude if given a chance (asymmetric loading or damage of the sealing interface).

Yes, yoke O-rings occasionally fail, requiring an inconvenient 2 minute replacement from a boat tool kit or save-a-dive tool box. Typically not during a dive although on rare occasion it can happen, although I don't ever recall reading about a serious incident as a result. Can you? Regardless, you get a half a point for providing an advantage of DIN valves.

We have all seen divers (other divers?) whose yoke connection bubbled happily away not just for one dive but an entire trip with no further issue than the annoying stream of bubbles.

I think the bubble stream is rather pretty, rather than annoying. Sort of like in a fish tank. Other than that, as you said, no further issues. As we all know, the amount of gas lost in those bubbles is, for all practical purposes, insignificant.

And then there is the adapters, most are not heavily built, they increase the leverage potential by pushing the first stage further from the sealing interface

The adapter that converts a DIN valve to a yoke regulator are simple solid circular devices with O-rings. They're solid metal, you don't get more heavily built than that! Do they significantly push the sealing surface further away and increase the risk of failure? I don't know, from my experience my yoke regulator seals just fine to a yoke valve or a DIN valve with a yoke adapter, not seeing any major difference there.

both DIN and yoke and the knob is there to entangle and to bang into cave/wreck ceilings and become entangled in jump lines (breaking them) thus again, combining the worst of both and the good of neither.

Not clear what you're trying to say there. A DIN to yoke adapter sits inside the DIN valve and does not have a second knob. A tank so configured looks and functions no differently than a tank with a yoke valve. The extremely low risk of entanglement other than on dirty technical wrecks such as the Andrea Doria was addressed.

Almost all tanks I have seen in rental fleets have at least some damage to the valve post.

Choose another dive op.

And yet a yoke can often be installed and will seal. Whereas a DIN regulator may not thread in if the broach is deformed or corroded and even if it threads in the sealing surface is not symmetric and thus no longer a fully captured O-ring with now the possibility of extrusion. Now hidden deep inside the threaded broach rather than being clearly visible that something is amiss as with a yoke.

This is an advantage of yoke vs DIN.

 

[Nemrod]

@Nemrod: Thank you for attempting to provide reasons that DIN is superior to yoke, and giving me the opportunity to scrutinize and debunk them.



Ah the old "you're going to snag (a suicide clip/retractor/yoke valve/split fin, etc) on a fishing line in a wreck and die!". I read about that happening once in a book about fatalities on the Andea Doria (and that guy was probably diving DIN). Perhaps some hard digging will find an example of a recreational diver losing their life due to a yoke valve entanglement but until then, that particular given reason is moot.



How many examples can you provide where a yoke valve impacted an object and caused a catastrophic life endangering failure? If you or anyone else can give... let's say, 3 examples, I'll post a retraction. Wait, never mind, after thinking about it, I'll settle for just one example.



Yes, yoke O-rings occasionally fail, requiring an inconvenient 2 minute replacement from a boat tool kit or save-a-dive tool box. Typically not during a dive although on rare occasion it can happen, although I don't ever recall reading about a serious incident as a result. Can you? Regardless, you get a half a point for providing an advantage of DIN valves.



I think the bubble stream is rather pretty, rather than annoying. Sort of like in a fish tank. Other than that, as you said, no further issues. As we all know, the amount of gas lost in those bubbles is, for all practical purposes, insignificant.



The adapter that converts a DIN valve to a yoke regulator are simple solid circular devices with O-rings. They're solid metal, you don't get more heavily built than that! Do they significantly push the sealing surface further away and increase the risk of failure? I don't know, from my experience my yoke regulator seals just fine to a yoke valve or a DIN valve with a yoke adapter, not seeing any major difference there.



Not clear what you're trying to say there. A DIN to yoke adapter sits inside the DIN valve and does not have a second knob. A tank so configured looks and functions no differently than a tank with a yoke valve. The extremely low risk of entanglement other than on dirty technical wrecks such as the Andrea Doria was addressed.



Choose another dive op.



This is an advantage of yoke vs DIN.

Is your real name Stockton Rush?

 

[gamon]

Is your real name Stockton Rush?

I hate to break it to you, but he's imploded.

 

[Nemrod]

People do things a certain way because they were told to do them that way and they refuse to think outside the box they've voluntarily placed themselves within.

That is exactly what Stockton Rush said before he became dead.



I tried to provide a balanced view. Both systems have pros and cons, you just do not agree with them regarding yoke. And yes, I have seen and had jump lines tangle in my yoke. Yes, I have seen and had failure due to impact of a yoke valve and yes such a thing if to occur in a deco or penetration dive with overhead could very easily result in someone becoming dead.

 

[gamon]

That is exactly what Stockton Rush said before he became dead.

Are you saying I shouldn't go on that submersible trip I've got booked through Groupon?

 

[Nemrod]

Are you saying I shouldn't go on that submersible trip I've got booked through Groupon?

Please do not, we would miss you .

 

[boulderjohn]

Everything I own is DIN, but the friends with who I have been going on annual dive trips and I have learned to be careful.

• Starting this Sunday, we will be on a 5 day Caribbean dive trip, and by calling ahead we learned that we would absolutely need to bring our adaptors. They only have yoke, with no ability to get DIN.
• A couple years ago we emailed ahead to a remote dive area in the Pacific, and we were assured there would be no problem getting DIN nitrox tanks for our dives. When we got there, we discovered there would indeed be a problem. The director of diving operations left and came back a couple hours later with DIN nitrox tanks. I have no idea where he got them, but the week we were there, they were the only ones they had.
• The exact same thing happened in another Pacific site. We emailed ahead and got full assurance we would be OK. When we got there, they asked if we had brought our adaptors. We hadn't. Again, I don't know where they got them, but they got us some DIN tanks just before our first scheduled dives.
• On a trip to Palau, we were assured that they had DIN tanks. On the day we arrived, they had us fill out detailed forms, that included whether we needed DIN or yoke. When the boat arrived the next day, they only had yoke tanks on board. They said they had seen we were Americans and assumed we had yoke without checking what we had requested. Luckily, we had brought our adaptors.

 

[bradlw]

I've dove quite a lot with Yoke. Later, after switching to DIN, I dove with it quite a bit. I've also used my yoke adapter to my DIN regs several times. Never a problem really, but I do feel like I have a bit more trouble getting it seated, and overall it just makes the first stage a bigger and more clunky package compared to when it's set up as a yoke reg.

Also, thinking back through the lens of my fuzzy memory I can recall quite a lot of stress on cattle boats where folks, myself sometimes included in that, would be struggling to deal with a bad o-ring
But I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with DIN

except I don't think any of those DIN set-ups would have been with damaged rental tanks

Personally, I like the idea of bringing a wrench and just reconfiguring the regulator. It's an easy swap for sure. Except I'd hate to be fussing around with that at the last minute if I don't have to! Usually, though, there's a boat ride involved so that could be plenty of time to get it done.

 

[The Chairman]

I've seen tanks fall over with both yoke and DIN. Neither first stage survived unscathed. However, the knob on the yoke is a definite entanglement hazard. I was co-teaching a class in the Keys, and my co-instructor used yoke. We were on the Speigle and a single line snagged that knob. He was doing a nice gentle frog kick, which soon morphed into a rather aggressive one. That soon gave way to an intense flutter, which was about to morph into I don't know what, but I had finally gotten over to him and cut the snag with my z-knife. ZOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

On the deck, he complained about the transient current he had run into and wondered if anyone else had felt it. Bwahahahahaha! At first, he didn't believe me, but eventually he understood why I dive only DIN.